Yichus thread making me feel less than

amother

Seablue

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:41 am

I didn't think of it as a 'yichus thread'. It's just really fun and interesting to see if you can find relatives on here! I'm guessing most ppl are posting 'big' names just because that's what memorable to them and that they think others might know about if they're related too.
It's interesting to see that it really does seem that the chassidish world knows more about their roots. I'm not chassidish and reading the thread made me realize that (maybe because of the war?) I actually have no clue of anything further than my great grandparents on my father's side. I never even met them (my grandparents were survivors) but I don't even know who their parents were! That's a bit sad, I think.
Either way, the thread is interesting. And yes, our biggest yichus is that we are all children of Avraham Avinu and Sarah Imeinu - and we are hopefully building our lives in a way they'd be proud of.

sruth1

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 7:21 am

amother Trillium wrote:

I remember in school and seminary the stories about yichus-who was it who asked who the father was, grandfather, etc and every time an answer was a given the Rebbe put up a zero, finally he said you be the 1 that goes in front to make the number huge? Does this ring a bell?

When people gush over my yichus this is exactly what I always say. When I was single everyone knew my yochus because of my last name, I was so happy when I got married and had a very generic Jewish name. It’s not that I am not proud of my yichus it’s that yichus doesn’t define who I am, just like I don’t want to be judged for mistakes my family may have made I don’t want to be judged for their great things either. I want to be judged based on who I am.

amother

Cyclamen

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 7:32 am

No, it doesn't bother me at all. If that's what makes people feel good about themselves, who cares.
Anyway I know someone who is the granddaughter of one of the most pre-eminent litvish gedolei hador of the 20th century and it always amused me how she somehow mananages to name drop that fact into the most random conversations and expects everyone to be impressed. Like, you could be talking about the weather and she'll respond something like, "did you know today is the anniversary that R' so and so, my grandfather, published his magnum opus sefer such and such." Lol.

Chayalle

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 7:34 am

I have Chassidish yichus, which meant zero in the BY schools I grew up attending. (I happen to have the same maiden name as a prominent Yeshivish/Litvish Gadol. No relation AFAIK, but I was always asked.... the Gadol was not a Levi like my father is....)
I think history is fascinating. And not all of it is pretty (including some of the inside stories in my very yichus'dik family.....)

amother

Lilac

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 7:40 am

amother Strawberry wrote:

When the ydden returned from galus with Ezra every family had to bring their yichus book, that meant that they were able to show that they are direct decents from to Avraham Avinu and are indeed Jewish THAT'S yichus. Not who your grandparents were.

( I didn't know that we had yichus, my grandmother mentioned it, but I learned a lot from researching and Geni.com where I found tons of information)

On Geni you can click on someone and find if you are related. I'm a BT without "yichus" but almost everyone I click on shows that my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather's aunt's husband's sister's niece's cousin is married to the grandmother of [insert Rav here]. Instant yichus. It's amusing but makes me realize how meaningless the whole thing is. We're all yidden and we're all connected.

amother

Sand

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 7:40 am

I am a geyoris so the yichus are what they are.

But generically I’m a descendant of a bunch of royalty from Charlemagne to Scandinavia to the Byzantine Empire. I think it’s pretty hilarious and always wonder what these royals thought of Jews and now they have a whole Jewish family in their descendants.

amother

Chicory

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 8:52 am

I don't compare myself to others when it comes to anything. Not money, yichus, lifestyle, looks or ability to cook. Comparisons are obnoxious

What difference does it make how great or awful somebody's ancestors were? None of that means anything in any real way. What matters is who and what YOU are, not who or what they were.

Comptroller

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 9:17 am

amother OP wrote:

Everyone says yichus doesn't count but then all they do is count it.

I'm from a plain Jane family. My mom always said "We make our own yichus" lol

Anyone else feeling this way?

Actually I found the thread quite amusing. And it left me scratching my head about consanguinity as in "Zanser Einikel 5 times over.
all this pride in egregious ancestors reminds me of European nobility, like the Habsburgs from Spain and Austria, who put so much emphasis on descent that they ended up with a few serious congenital illnesses.
In other words: those who brag about their ancestors should be thankfull that fresh blood is coming in.

However, I heard that in many chareid schools, this kind of genealogical project is an important part of the curriculum, and this thread showed me that it might not be amusing for the "plain janes" among the students.

Comptroller

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 9:23 am

amother Seablue wrote:

But doesn't it kind of defy the purpose when almost everyone posts anonymously on that thread?

By the way: the ressources available online to do genealogy, specially jewish genealogy, are getting better and better, maybe it would be worthwhile for you to start looking? You might discover things no-one in your family knew up to now. that's what happened to me. I discovered things my grandparents and their siblings knew nothing about, others that they never told, but remembered when prompted.

watergirl

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 9:34 am

This thread needs more empathy and if you can't give that, your comment about how you enjoyed the "yichus" thread belongs somewhere else.

This is not an OP complaining about the thread saying she does not like it and it's inappropriate, she's seemingly seeking support or venting that it made her feel bad. This is not the place for people to come here and say "I've got mega yichus but I liked seeing the little people".

"Little Person" here. It can be very hard to see so many people connecting and talking about their great connections and rich family history. So many of us can only connect the dots when we do a cheek swab and enter it on 23andme. No stories to connect, as the yichus starts with us.

If you can't understand why that thread makes OP feel bad, this is not the place to say how much you loved it. Say it there maybe?

Trademark

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 9:37 am

Statistically speaking most probably everyone has someone in their yichus.

Going back ten generations you have over 2,000 ancestors. It's not such a big deal as they make it to be. Especially that we are small community and marry each other constantly it's very likely you also have someone in your family tree.

amother

Rainbow

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 9:44 am

Reading through the other thread, I just realized something- a lot of the ancestors listed lived a REALLY long time ago. For example the tosfos yom tov lived almost 500 years ago. Any descendants are very, very far cousins.

You probably have lots of yichus in your family tree as well, if you would go back far enough. A lot of us lost the names over the generations and countless pogroms and persecutions.

Someone with more current yichus is more meaningful IMO, and also more closely related.

How many on the other thread have yichus from the past 100 to 200 years? Now THAT would be meaningful. (And yichus atzmi is the most meaningful of all!). Otherwise it's just a game IMO. Don't take the other thread to heart.

safetynet1

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 9:46 am

watergirl wrote:

I deleted my comment. I try not to hurt people. My point by that comment was more that I dont care about yichus and simple folk arent simple at all.

amother

Rainbow

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 9:47 am

amother Seablue wrote:

Just pointing out that if your "ancestor" lived 500 years ago, you're not really relatives!!!

I would love to find real relatives (I just found a third cousin who lives on my block).

Comptroller

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 9:48 am

Trademark wrote:

Going back 10 generation you have 2^10 = 1024 ancestors.
Going back 20 genrations you have 2^20, that's roughly a million ancestors.
going back 30 generations, you have 2^30, that's roughly one billion ancestors. That's more than there were humans on earth at that time, so many people will be your ancestors a few times over, w hen you go back 30 generations.

Now if you take a generation, on average, as 35 years (not 20, because not everybody is a first child, not everybody is young when having children), 30 generations would be around 1000 years, that would bring uns back to the time of Rashi... Hence the hypothesis that almost every ashkenazy today has Rashi somewhere among his or her ancestors.

Trademark

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 9:56 am

Comptroller wrote:

Thanks for correcting my mistake.

Even among thousand ancestors I'm sure everyone can find at least one name. Especially when you narrow down even more between between Ashkenazi, yemenite, etc

At the end of the day we are all descendants of the avos and imahos.