The real problem | Imamother

amother

Brunette

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:30 pm

amother Garnet wrote:

I think we would all be in better shape without tuition, but states than have tuition voucher programs in one form or another, tend to be more expensive in some other way.

This.

I looked into cost of living in Cleveland and at my income level, I would have to pay the difference between tuition costs and vouchers, I would have to buy an expensive house at a higher rate, my income would go down because I would be paid less in Ohio than where I live now, and thats assuming my job is portable.

Overall, it wasnt worth it. I wouldnt come out ahead.

amother

Candycane

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 3:51 am

amother Brunette wrote:

My family would be doing wonderfully. We would go from lower middle class to mid/upper middle class.

I would have more cleaning help (3 hours a week for a large family and two full time working parents is difficult. I would hire someone 3x a week)

I would take my family on vacation every year.

Save more for retirement.

Eat fleishigs more during the week. These days we do fleishigs only for shabbos and one other time during the week and I would love to serve it more often.

I may even do a home renovation and add more bedrooms and bathrooms. With a big family it is getting pretty tight.

But if you lived in a state like that you’d be making a lot less money

amother

Clematis

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 7:55 am

amother OP wrote:

So in your opinion, if everyone would stop buying doonas and bugaboos, and only shop in Wal Mart and Target, frum life would suddenly become affordable for everybody? That's not what the financial experts are saying, do you have any numbers to back this up?

If you spend less, you will have more. It's basic math. Will it magically balance your budget? Probably not. That doesn't mean you shouldn't still cut those things out. If you're financially struggling, cut out luxuries. I don't get why this is a chiddush.

What financial experts say to spend on luxuries when you're having trouble making ends meet?

Basics are very expensive. It's very hard for people to afford basics. This is the reality.

amother

Clematis

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:10 am

amother Garnet wrote:

Except I have one kid airborne allergic to eggs and one allergic to beans and dairy. Yeah, unless I want to be a short order chef, we're having fleshigs every night.

Obviously, people with allergies will have a harder time making changes to their diet.

There are grains with complete protein, like quinoa, amaranth, buckwheat. Tofu, edamame, and nuts are also good protein sources. Canned tuna and salmon are also a good substitute for chicken sometimes.

amother

Clematis

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:17 am

amother Smokey wrote:

Try telling lactose intolerant and allergy ridden ashkenazim to cut back on fleishigs 😅

There are lots if options that aren't milchigs and there are options even with sensities. Obviously, not as simple but not impossible.

But this is my point. Apparently it is hilarious to even suggest.

notshanarishona

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:19 am

amother Brunette wrote:

Houses are not super expensive in Cleveland, we bought a fixer upper house for around $100 k, spent $100 k to make it liveable.

amother

Indigo

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:20 am

amother Clematis wrote:

What about some who are only spending on basics and not a luxury?
Some things may be subjective.
Camp - if both parents work then kids need day camp is a necessity. But if there’s no structure for older kids, meaning no day camp or job as a jc then these kids need sleep away camp.

Cleaning help - some people need it for their mental health, or in order to have time to be there for their children.

As a double digit family kah, if I didn’t have a few hours of cleaning help when I come home from work I wouldn’t be able to function. While she cleans I prep supper, make it, serve it to the little kids, run to meet buses or do pick up in between and way more. She only cleans but I have to put things away - groceries, toys and whatever kids didn’t put away before bed. That’s besides having a newborn who nurses, meaning 20 minute feedings that nothing else can be done then. I’m up before 7 and in bed after midnight.

amother

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:24 am

amother Clematis wrote:

You're responding to my post, but I'm not sure which point of mine you're responding to. Where did I argue that everyone needs luxuries?

If the point you're trying to make is that we waste our money on bugaboos, that's a different thread. My thread wasn't focusing on what we waste, or how people who are really making enough to money to live on if they would cut out bugaboos and other high end items can balance their budget. That was not the point of my OP.

My point is that frum life is unaffordable for many BEFORE any extras. We understand that its basic math that if you spend another $1000 you are out $1000. If that was the magic number, and that the reason for it, I would suggest it, but it's not. That's not the issue for many.

(Speaking as someone who has only used Graco carriages, I don't have an agenda here.)

amother

Clematis

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:27 am

amother Indigo wrote:

You're right. Some things are not luxuries. But fancy strollers and clothes are luxuries.

amother

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:29 am

amother Clematis wrote:

I asked this question before, and did not yet get one answer.

If you are someone who is managing financially because you don't eat fleishig, what is your income and family size? I think this is important information, because if you can show that this is what balances the numbers, you can give a real solution.

Without real numbers to back this up your suggestions are meaningless.

amother

Clematis

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:35 am

amother OP wrote:

You seem to be saying it's only worth it to make changes if that one change will magically balance your budget. You seem to be of the mindset that life is unaffordable anyway so might as well by what I want.

I'm saying reducing expenses will increase the money you have available. What proof do you need for this? It's basic math. Is it the solution? I can't say. But it helps. It's a step in the right direction. Refusing to mkae any changes unless it balances your budget won't help improve things at all.

amother

Maple

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:37 am

amother Clematis wrote:

You're right. Some things are not luxuries. But fancy strollers and clothes are luxuries.

A stroller that will last many kids for years is an investment not a luxary. Having to replace your cheap stroller yearly is more expensive in the long run. ( not talking about doonas )

amother

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:42 am

amother Clematis wrote:

HOW did you read that from any of my posts???? I have only bought Graco carriages. I have never even gone on vacation, let alone a low cost vacation. WHERE in any of my posts did I say, ONCE, that everyone should buy what they want because anyway life is unaffordable?

If you want to start a thread pointing out how foolish it is to spend on luxuries when you can't afford necessities, you are welcome to start it.

MY thread is about how even basics have become unaffordable to many. And it's a larger percentage than you think.

Everyone thinks it's just them, but it's not. It's a real problem. The economy plus inflation has caused life to become unaffordable for a much larger percentage of regular plain Jane folks than it's been before. Inflation, plus a tighter job market, plus the end of covid benefits and ppp/erc for business owners, has caused a lot of people, regular people working regular jobs, to find that life is now unaffordable.

THIS is what I'm trying to say, this was my point of my OP.

If you disagree, I see would love to see real data to back it up.

amother

Clematis

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:43 am

amother OP wrote:

I don't know what the solution is. I am in general pretty thrifty. I would to see more thread with ideas for living frugally, but most ideas are mocked here on this site. You're not wrong. Just basics are very expensive. If someone is spending on luxuries that's the first place to cut. I'm sure there are places people could cut down in other areas but is there a single magic solution? I don't know. But for me, any way I could save is a way to make more room in my budget.

amother

Amber

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:45 am

I didn't read all the replies but I will agree with OP.
We are a family of 4. I don't have a doona, we have simple dinners, literally no extra food in the house, buy at cheaper stores and don't go on vacations.
We are basically paycheck to paycheck with rent, food, tuition and insurance.

amother

Clematis

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 8:49 am

amother OP wrote:

I apologize for my assumption. Life is unaffordable. I don't think there's a single solution. I think we should be looking for ways to save. I think it helps even if it's not a fox for everything.

amother

Natural

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 9:16 am

amother Nasturtium wrote:

I mean, I was at a Jeweler this week and he told me that nowadays everyone upgrades their diamond ring to at least double the size of the original because they don't want their rings to be the same size of their daughters-in-law.

I doubt that "everyone" or even 5% of the population does that. But by him saying "everyone" he hopes to make it a trend and profit off of it. It is our job as adults to realize this and not fall for the "everyone is doing it".

amother

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 9:28 am

amother Clematis wrote:

If you are looking for ideas to save money, I found "The Tightwad Gazette" to be very helpful. It's an old book but still has plenty of useful ideas.

But how does that help me if my tuition just went up, my kids day camp just informed me that they are almost DOUBLING the price from last year, and I have no choice because I work full time and anyway they're too old to be home all summer?

I think our community needs a reality check and we need to focus on solutions of how to deal with this problem. The wealthy people who are flashing their money around are more visible, but there are plenty of us who can't afford life and I think that we are the silent majority.

amother

Garnet

Thu, Apr 04 2024, 9:29 am

amother Clematis wrote:

My family is a definite abnormality, but the only things that were not allergic to from your list are quinoa which no one except me will eat and salmon, which at $2 a can, is no cheaper than chicken or ground beef when I shop carefully. (5 oz of salmon for $2 each is the same $6 a lb as bulk ground beef and way harder to stretch without eggs or breadcrumbs ). Salmon, even canned, is actually a treat in my house (except the one kid who won’t eat it)