The real problem | Imamother

amother

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:16 pm

So many threads on the same topic! And everybody's so upset. I think that we're all saying the same thing just in many different ways:

LIFE HAS BECOME UNAFFORDABLE FOR EVERYBODY EXCEPT THE RICH.

Prices of everything has gone up. Food, clothing, cars, utilities, tuition. Wages have not gone up in the same way. Some of the benefits that many have gotten due to covid - free health insurance, extra food stamps, PPP and and ERC for business owners - are now gone.

I follow some financial professionals on LinkedIn, and they are unanimous that it can easily cost 250k minimum for an average frum family just to get by, and that's simply not what everyone is making.

There are so, so many struggling families. And, if someone is honest about their income and on programs, they are definitely struggling as well. (I'm not in the least but jealous of those who are making it through fraudulent means).

Am I right?

amother

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:24 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

Another problem is the high standards of living. Everybody wants to live like the rich whether they can afford it or not.

I am talking about basics. Before we get to the standard of living, which is a separate problem.

amother

Geranium

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:28 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

Another problem is the high standards of living. Everybody wants to live like the rich whether they can afford it or not.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that.

Standards have risen so that the line between luxury and necessity is very blurred.

Many also get parenting advice that requires spending money on non-necessities with the threat that your child will go OTD or not get married if you don't buy them certain clothing or status items or send them to camp or seminary.

What's funny is that it is fine for an otherwise poor family to splurge on clothing, OR on a Florida vacation, OR on a nicer car. But now we insist on ALL of it.

Same with weddings. If the dress is very important to you, spend more on it. But you don't have to spend more on the dress AND the band AND the flowers AND the upgraded menu and and and...

The ability to splurge in some areas and be frugal in others seems to be a rapidly disappearing skill.

amother

Garnet

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:00 pm

I don’t think we have high standards of living. Before we even talk about toys or clothes, monthly survival costs :
3k housing (and we don’t have a huge house)
2.2k daycare/ tuitions for all kids
1k food (that’s with carefully shopping sales and making most snacks myself )
500 car insurance, electric , water etc

My husband and I together bring home 7k after taxes. So that doesn’t leave a whole lot for the extras, whether it's medical bills or new pajamas.

amother

NeonBlue

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:01 pm

amother Geranium wrote:

That's not what I'm seeing.

Unless you define standard of living as this:
Living near family/in a Frum community with amenities
Having more than a few children
Providing any therapy suggested by the school
Providing balanced healthy meals
Living within your financial AND emotional energy budget ( not everyone can work full-time without cleaning help, for example. Not that they're lazy. They can't do it in a healthy manner.)

This basic standard has become unaffordable.

Yes these are not survival needs. But I think it should be reasonable to expect these things to be affordable.

amother

Mimosa

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:03 pm

mig100 wrote:

I don't think so.

Life is expensive.

I agree with op

Yeah.. certain basics are expensive and no two ways about it. ( food, insurance, home)

But clothes? They don’t have to be. If ppl insist on shopping frum fashion, etc.. but target, Walmart, gap, old navy are nice

Shoes- same as clothes

Strollers? Does every young mother need Doona, bugaboo..

There’s definitely a high standard right there

amother

Clematis

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:19 pm

amother Mimosa wrote:

And if we suggest cutting out or reducing fleishigs during the week, it's scandalous.

amother

Geranium

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:33 pm

amother Diamond wrote:

And anything extra is a need for ones mental health...

Right. While it is true that it is a need for SOME people, that doesn't make it a need for everyone. That seems to be very difficult for many to understand.

This applies to the fleishigs as well. Just because someone else can barely eat anything but chicken does not mean that you can't stick with egg or bean based dinners a few times a week.

amother

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:39 pm

amother Mimosa wrote:

So in your opinion, if everyone would stop buying doonas and bugaboos, and only shop in Wal Mart and Target, frum life would suddenly become affordable for everybody? That's not what the financial experts are saying, do you have any numbers to back this up?

amother

Smokey

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:40 pm

Here’s what I think:
We ideally should be able to afford what most of our parents did twenty years ago. Fleishig for dinner and an occasional steak. Braces. Daycamp. Local vacation once in a while.

But prices on basics such as food, tuition, cars, homes, and daycamp have risen so much that it feels much harder to manage that same middle class lifestyle.

I agree that clothing and simchas and presents for chosson kalah have become insane and I think that’s where we can cut back

amother

Geranium

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

To all those posters who are making it on less money by cutting out doonas and fleishigs, would you to care to share your income and family size? I think that would be very helpful to know.

We are a non-Doona, mostly no fleishigs during the week family.

I am not disagreeing with you though. The basics alone are nearly (or actually) impossible.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't also be trying to cut down in areas where we can. It doesn't fix everything, but things are not as bad as they would be otherwise.

amother

Garnet

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:43 pm

amother Geranium wrote:

Except I have one kid airborne allergic to eggs and one allergic to beans and dairy. Yeah, unless I want to be a short order chef, we're having fleshigs every night.

amother

Geranium

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:44 pm

amother Garnet wrote:

Except I have one kid airborne allergic to eggs and one allergic to beans and dairy. Yeah, unless I want to be a short order chef, we're having fleshigs every night.

No, you're actually proving my point. YOU need to have fleishigs every night for very valid reasons.

That doesn't mean that MY family needs fleishigs every night.

amother

Garnet

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:45 pm

I posted my very basic budget above. My kids have Graco carseats and all shirts come from target or Walmart (skirts are on sale from kidichic because non jewish stores charge even more for long skirts). Food is a fortune (yes we do fleshigs almost every night because of allergies, but that's not a choice I exactly volunteered for) and tuition is a fortune. Housing isn't cheap either