The real problem | Imamother

amother

Lightyellow

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:55 pm

amother Amaryllis wrote:

We make 250 pretax. We’re not making it. No jewish clothing or shoes. Only cheap grocery. No cleaning help. Do my sheitel myself. No vacations - last one was 7 yrs ago. Between food, tuition, clothing, camp, therapies we are in the red every single month. Everything is a fortune now and the percentage we make compared to our expenses aren’t the same they were had my parents had the same expenses and made the same amount of money. Things were simply cheaper back then and the your dollar lasted longer.

How many kids do you have?

amother

Oleander

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:07 pm

I agree.
Family of 8 here making about 180 pretax.
Barley scraping by on basics. Out of town, second hand clothes except for teens occasionally new. No fancy vacations or cars. Life is extremely expensive. I just don't understand how people seem to be living so much higher... How do ppl make more then 300+ if they don't own business or are doctors/ lawyers?

amother

Smokey

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:14 pm

amother Oleander wrote:

Real estate
Sales
Each spouse making 150
Psychologist
Tech

amother

Oleander

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:25 pm

amother Smokey wrote:

Real estate
Sales
Each spouse making 150
Psychologist
Tech

Yes, but that's assuming the women is working full time, which as others point out in another thread here, is very difficult if you want to be a calm present mother while your raising your children. I don't do very well mentally working 40 hours a week.

amother

Red

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:26 pm

Of course crazy standards doesn't help! Especially if you live in places like Lakewood... Where the standards top Boro Park, Monsey and anything I know!!!
The day camp situation here is next level whacko a day camp for a 6th grader costs $2,500! How is that normal? And most kids in her class going to similar priced day camps. They gotta go to 4 Waterpark a month because the competition is insane here. And BTW a water park trip alone isn't exciting anymore. You need a singer and a magic show before and who knows what else.

Same is with Sunday clubs.
Growing up in Boro Park, some fancy lucky kids went to Sunday clubs/ AKA art classes. Here it's standard. I tried not sending my daughter last year... She was bored like crazy and didn't have any friends to make playdates with because they were all at clubs.

The list goes on!!!!!

mig100

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:03 pm

amother Pansy wrote:

I totally agree that it’s the necessities that are killing us.
We bought a house when prices and rates were lower so we pay $2.5k a month for a small home that could really use updating and expanding. If we were paying full tuition that would be $6k a month. That’s $100k after tax before touching a single other expense.

Yes. This.

amother

Cerise

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:13 pm

Interesting about the comment that we just want to bring up our kids with what we grew up on, but many of these things became ridiculously expensive….and we added a few must haves of our own.

Many of Our parents were one income families, with some cleaning help.
Many went away for the summer….which at this point can easily cost $30k to rent a place (obviously we’re not ready to go to those Jungalows anymore).
Camp was a given from a young age.
I think eating fleishigs almost every day was also a given….but it was probably cheaper cuts….now bottoms are ewww…
Etc…

amother

Smokey

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:17 pm

amother Cerise wrote:

The housing needs are also so different than the past.

No one can survive with one bathroom anymore.
En suites are a necessity….what do you mean you don’t have one….
And a porch for a sukka obviously
A pesach kitchen- how can we do pesach without?
Etc etc….

I’m so curious if social media and magazines played a role in this. The more we feel like everyone else does it…

amother

Candycane

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:17 pm

amother Cerise wrote:

No again, I disagree. Majority of the middle class people struggling are not looking for any of the above

amother

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:30 pm

amother Oleander wrote:

So seems like we're in agreement that it's not the luxuries that are putting us in the red. At least not for most of us. What can we do about it now?

The first step is to acknowledge the problem. Identifying a problem is always the first step towards solving it.

Another big step is to realize that its not just you and it's not just me. There are an awful lot of us who are in this boat and it's not our fault! It's not because we have outrageous standards or we are trying to live in luxury (I've always used a Graco carriage, never went on vacation, etc etc and we still can't make ends meet on what used to be considered a decent salary and I get frustrated when so many threads assume that we are just trying to live it up when that is so far from the case).

amother

Indigo

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:42 pm

Housing and tuition I think are the biggest expenses.

My mortgage and maintenance are around $3,000 a month but that’s because I got govt help to lower it.

My tuition is $50,000 for 9 kids kah.

With allergies and other health issues we have fleishig almost every night - a different variation of chicken. During the nine days most have a heter to eat fleishig.

Our food bill is over $2000 a month for a family of 12 kah.

If we didn’t get snap to cover half the food we wouldn’t be able to buy food. I make all baked goods except bread to help lower costs. That includes challah, cakes and more.

Tishrei and Pesach with lunch / YT meals are every tough as all are home for 3 meals a day.

We don’t have a car. Don’t go on vacations. Buy very cheap clothes for kids when needed though a lot is hand me downs.

I have a wig with a tear and shoes cracked at the sole so I get soaked when it rains. Can’t afford boots and the only shoes that fit me and support my feet went up to close to $100. So these items are on hold. Got my girls new shoes for $20 each as theirs tore all the way down. Don’t have money to wash my wig. Someone gifted me a wash n set for YT as a Thank you for something I helped them with earlier this year.

Those who think the govt programs tide over the poor / lower class who are living it up are under false assumptions. As someone “poor”, even with govt help, we still struggle. We’re living off a loan to help cover our monthly expenses. Having a college degree isn’t the answer for many. It’s not helping me. Without govt help we wouldn’t have a roof over our head or food on the table.

amother

Garnet

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:16 pm

amother Cerise wrote:

Again you’re making assumptions. We have multiple bathrooms but none are even a master bathroom, forget ensuites. And no succah porch or Pesach kitchen. We’re don’t even have central air! Even those of us who aren’t spoiled brats aren’t managing.

amother

Garnet

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:17 pm

amother Geranium wrote:

Out of curiosity, if tuition was out of the picture, how many families would be "frum poor"?

I think we would all be in better shape without tuition, but states than have tuition voucher programs in one form or another, tend to be more expensive in some other way.

amother

Brunette

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:27 pm

amother Geranium wrote:

Out of curiosity, if tuition was out of the picture, how many families would be "frum poor"?

My family would be doing wonderfully. We would go from lower middle class to mid/upper middle class.

I would have more cleaning help (3 hours a week for a large family and two full time working parents is difficult. I would hire someone 3x a week)

I would take my family on vacation every year.

Save more for retirement.

Eat fleishigs more during the week. These days we do fleishigs only for shabbos and one other time during the week and I would love to serve it more often.

I may even do a home renovation and add more bedrooms and bathrooms. With a big family it is getting pretty tight.