Do girls light menorah?

savta3

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 3:35 am

MrsDash wrote:

Kind of the same reason why women eat in the sukkah. We like to share the experience, even though it's not a required mitzvah.

(Grew up jpf and yes, the ladies in the house lit menorahs as well.)

Women are obligated in lighting Chanuka candles.
But that does not mean they are obligated to light them themselves, only that they must see the lighting/ hear the brochos. And some opinions are that they don't even need to see/hear it as long as candles are lit in the home where they live.

It's similar to Kiddush.
A woman must make kiddush, but she can either make it herself or hear it from someone else. Usually it is the husband's/ father's role to make kiddush and she listens and fulfills her obligation. However, if there is no man to make kiddush, then she needs to make it herself.

Boys lighting their own candles under bar mitzva is for chinuch (to educate them in mitzvos). Ashkenazim traditionally have all men light their own, as mehadrin min hamehadrin (the choicest mitzva) although technically they could all fulfill their obligation with one person.

So not sure what the idea is for girls to only light until bas mitzva. They don't need to be educated in a mitzva which they will not be doing later.

In Israel, AFAIK, among chareidim only boys light. Of course there is nothing wrong with girls lighting too but it seems to me that it is more about leaving them out than any other reason.

Regarding sukkah, someone only fulfills the mitzva (for men an obligation, for women optional) if they actually physically sit there themselves. It doesn't help to see/hear someone else sitting in the sukka.

rzab

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 3:53 am

amother Feverfew wrote:

Actually, many hold that women are not mechayav in shofer or megillah.

The gemara disagrees with this.....
There are three mitzvot that the gemara explains that even though they are time bound מצוות women are obligated in them because of אף הן היו באותו הנס - They were part of the miracle
תוסופות gives two explanations to this.... Either that they were saved by the miracle or bc they facilitated the miracle.

The three mitzvot are megila, Chanukah candles and four cups of wine at the seder.

LovesHashem

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 4:00 am

rzab wrote:

Matzah isn't included? I hate Matzah 😂 I have to force myself to eat every bite.

juggling

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 4:03 am

savta3 wrote:

You're clearly very knowledgeable about halacha.

As you said, women are obligated in ner chanukah (and kiddush) just like men.

I agree it doesn't make sense for girls to light only until bat mitzvah. However, I think it makes sense for girls to light from the age of chinuch until they get married. Why not? The Ashkenazik custom is for every member of the household to light their own menorah. The only exception noted by the mishna brura is that a married woman usually doesn't light her own, but is yotzei with her husband because ishto k'gufo.

Your suggestion that the reason that girls light is "about not leaving them out" doesn't make sense to me. Girls are obligated in the lighting, just like the boys. By default they should be included. If girls don't light in an Ashkenazi home, we would need to ask why not.

I've heard some reasons, but they don't sit well with me.

LovesHashem

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 4:03 am

savta3 wrote:

This is not true. If a woman is staying by a family that is not her own the halacha is she should be giving money or contributing in some way for the payment of the menorah and supplies, similar to how many sefardi boys in yeshivah in Israel away from family give money to ashkenazi boys to be yotzei.

Being present is not enough as far as I've learned the halachos.

rzab

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 4:11 am

amother Pearl wrote:

So the wife should light. Problem solved. Why does the women HAVE to be included with husband if it’s less ideal.

I really struggle when I see things like this in Halacha:(

This makes me so sad. There's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about halacha out there. You shouldn't judge halacha by how ppl keep it. You should learn it and understand. I think that would minimize the struggle

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 4:22 am

savta3 wrote:

In my family, the girls light until bas mitzvah because they want to and so we don't stop them. Not because my husband believes they should... But they all make menorahs until a certain point and we're ok with them lighting (including my oldest daughter who did light at 12... We're generally pretty relaxed in how we handle things that aren't exact halacha.)
I don't think there's an actual inyan to light until 12 per se.

amother

Dandelion

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 4:50 am

amother Pearl wrote:

So the wife should light. Problem solved. Why does the women HAVE to be included with husband if it’s less ideal.

I really struggle when I see things like this in Halacha:(

Does it make you feel better that according to the shulchan aruch (which all sefardim follow) it's considered ideal for only one menora to be lit per household? Men over bar mitzvah who are still living in the household don't light either.

keym

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 6:26 am

amother Jetblack wrote:

So interesting. I'm Yeshivish and I don't know of any girls in my community growing up who lit menorah.

My daughter did light for a few years. She's 7 now and she didn't want to light this year, none of her friends do...

Many of my daughters friends don't light.
We hold she should and we encourage her to until she gets married and will be ishto kgufo.

But because many of her friends don't light, she doesn't advertise it and I find it doesn't come up much in conversation, except with her Sefardic friends who find it amusing that there are multiple menorahs in our house.

amother

Glitter

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 8:28 am

amother Jetblack wrote:

We are Yeshivish and in yeshivish circles, and as I wrote earlier my girls light. Till marriage. They definitely have some friends who light as well.
Either way it's just what we do. Every kids lights. It's not really a "do you want to or not?" type of thing. When a kid knows that this is what our family does, they're usually happy about it.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 8:43 am

rzab wrote:

It’s not the lighting per se. It’s just that seemingly according to ashkenazi minhag it’s less ideal if women don’t light. Instead of just saying so women should light they go through all the mental gymnastics of why it’s good or ok women shouldn’t light.

Believe it or not, I never had an issue with these things until I started learning, and I gave up learning because of it. When things are logical and make sense according to the Halachick system I’m ok with it. When it doesn’t but they give reasons like “tznius”, “shalom bayis” (it would bother the men?!?!?!), or something like that, it constantly made me wonder why if they want women should be less committed to being Ehrlich. Because when I was happily living my life at status quo none of this bothered me.

When I decided I need to shape up and started davening and learning more I realized that according to many rabbis, they would just prefer I don’t. Or they would want me to be committed, but make it extremely difficult and discourage me at every turn?

I don’t know how to make sense of it. I am hoping that maybe one day I’ll be strong enough to go back, learn and address my questions.

amother

Lightcoral

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 9:46 am

amother Pearl wrote:

Similar vibe with women-only zimmun and also mayim achronim.

Mayim achronim: https://ohr.edu/this_week/insi...../5285

Women-only zimmun: https://outorah.org/p/5707/

Ema of 5

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 9:50 am

amother OP wrote:

I have a few sons BH, and now a daughter who is old enough to light a menorah. We automatically gave her one to light, but my older sons want to know why she is lighting. TBH we never really thought about it, I know I lit when I was a kid, probably until at least bas mitzvah age. But my parents were new BT's and often didnt do things like that.
Is it done for a girl to light a menorah? If yes, until what age?
For reference we are JPF veering towards the yeshivish spectrum Smile

I lit until I got married, and my daughters light if they want to. My 14 year old didn’t light this year (she did last year) and my 7 year old did.