Blocked Prog and need encouragement to stay away

amother

Sunflower

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 5:21 pm

amother OP wrote:

Update: He emailed me again and said he was glad to hear I was okay and was just curious why I left. After some deliberation, I decided to answer him. I wrote to him honestly that our email exchanges had made me somewhat uncomfortable and that they also opened my eyes to the fact that Prog had dulled my sensitivies to appropriate boundaries between men and women, so I decided to leave. He thanked me for my honesty and apologized, and we wished each other and Klal Yisroel besuros tovos... and then I deleted that email account. So now it's officially over and we have no way of contacting each other.

I confess that I did check into Prog twice very briefly but without logging in so I could only read but not post, and quite frankly, it suddenly seemed really boring and uninteresting to me.

How has he emailed you if you've deleted that email account already?

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 5:24 pm

amother Sunflower wrote:

How has he emailed you if you've deleted that email account already?

Good catch.
I reactivated the account on Friday because I realized there was an email address I had stored in there that I needed. I didn't have time to delete the account again, and when I turned on the computer after Shabbos, that account opened for me.

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 5:25 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

I don't like that he's emailing you again after you explained that you didn't feel comfortable emailing him, or that he's trying to get you to go back to writing somewhere that he can read your posts.

I think you should stay strong in your decision to leave prog, and also take his advice and block his email so he can't message you like this again. I don't think you should email him again, it doesn't seem like he's so ready to let go and he will likely keep responding to you.

I don't like it either. After reading what he wrote, I see that he's feeling guilty because he thinks I left Prog only because of him and that I'm losing out unnecessarily. That's why he felt the need to write again.

I don't think that makes it okay though.

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 5:31 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Listen. It's a lot of Hebrew and fancy words. I get the gist and most of what he said.

Honestly he just sounds like he's trying to persuade you. You left the site not because if the men and women, that's the extra straw that broke the camels back, but because it was inappropriate, time consuming, addictive etc. Even if you block each other all those issues remain.

To be very honest, I know you say he's a Ben Torah, but no Ben Torah I know would go on a forum, frum or not. And definitely not one with women. All the Ben Torah I know are way too busy, taking are of their families, learning, wiring shuirim, working hide hustles, earning safrus, going to minyan 3 times a day, being a rebbi, rav, mashigiach or some other Torah job, making dinner for their kids etc....

You just can't trust anyone on the internet. You don't know him and he can just be any person for all you know he's not even religious. On this site we have issues with people lying about who they are, you need to take everything with a grain of salt

I left because of both. The lack of boundaries between men and women was what pushed me to take that step. The addictiveness bothered me all along, but that wasn't enough to make me leave.

It's interesting because on one hand I agree with you that the Bnei Torah I know are not on forums, but OTOH, within Prog there's a lot of Torah learning going on. I said he seems to be a Ben Torah because he's very active on the Torah threads, and while I don't understand most of what he writes (quoting gemaras etc.), it seems like he knows his stuff. There are also subforums there for rebbeim, Torah editors, etc.

Prog prides itself on being the only truly Chareidi forum that adheres to the highest standards of ruchnius, and it does seem to attract a very Torah-oriented crowd.

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 5:31 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Agreed, also his email to you is so weirdly long it reads like a poem or something. Like why is he writing so much like deep emotional thoughts to you in such a poetic way?

He's a writer. That's how he writes on Prog too.

LovesHashem

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 5:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

Just because there's Torah going on doesn't mean they are Bnei Torah... Just going to be real.

Again. I just don't know any serious learners that would ever go onto a site like this.

If it was really so chareidi they would have seperate forums for men and women. I really don't get this...

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 5:49 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

They do have a separate subforum for women only to discuss women-only issues (I'm not part of it), but the rest of it is mixed.

I don't really get it either.

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 6:08 pm

I am thinking of reporting him to Prog. They are very quick to block anyone who establishes contact outside of the forum. My only hesitation is because he'll know I was the one who reported him and I'm not comfortable with that. I also want to delete that account again tonight, and in order to report him, I have to leave it open to forward the correspondences to the administrators there.

amother

Gardenia

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 6:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

Could you leave the email open to communicate with the administrators but block his email?

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 6:33 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

Could you leave the email open to communicate with the administrators but block his email?

Doesn't blocking an email just make it go into spam? I'll still see it since I check my spam folder periodically to make sure nothing went in there by mistake. Is there a way to completely block someone so I won't see it at all?

amother

Gardenia

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 6:37 pm

amother OP wrote:

I don't know if there's a way to block someone completely.
Do you need to check spam on an email account you're planning on deleting?

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 7:16 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

I don't know if there's a way to block someone completely.
Do you need to check spam on an email account you're planning on deleting?

Good point. Done. He's blocked. Now I have to decide if I'm reporting him or not.

dena613

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 7:55 pm

Eeeww ich.
You must delete your prog account and delete that email account and forget about him.
He's a TOTAL CREEP.

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 8:18 pm

dena613 wrote:

Eeeww ich.
You must delete your prog account and delete that email account and forget about him.
He's a TOTAL CREEP.

Prog doesn't allow you to delete your account, but I'm logged out of it and have blocked Prog.
I've also blocked his email address.
I did forget about him until he emailed me again.

loveraizy

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 8:35 pm

amother OP wrote:

It's in Hebrew. It's officially for Chareidi professionals to network with each other, but it's used for discussing all kinds of random topics mostly unrelated to work. My son calls it the Chareidi facebook.

I tried looking it up, I cant find it can you send me a link ?

amother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 8:37 pm

loveraizy wrote:

I tried looking it up, I cant find it can you send me a link ?

prog.co.il

ittsamother

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 9:03 pm

I just want to say that quitting any habit is SO SO hard, and especially one that gives so much pleasure- intellectual, emotional, those are real needs and it was giving you a lot of satisfaction in those areas, clearly. I am so impressed by your strength. Kol Hakavod and I hope you keep finding the fortitude to make the right choice as the yetzer harah keeps trying to gently draw you back in.

As well, reading over these 4 pages in quick succession made it very clear to me that your interactions with him was definitely one of the things drawing you back to Prog, and I can understand why. An enjoyable friendship is a very valuable thing, it adds to your day, your mind goes back to it a lot, it gives you something to look forward to... I think you made a very wise and healthy choice to cut it off. And if he had been more clearly a creep, it would be far easier for you to cut him out cold turkey but because he has been keeping to the boundaries pretty much it's that much harder for you to justify to yourself why you so badly need to cut him out.

I have never had an experience like yours, but I've read a lot. And the worst dilemmas people find themselves in, emotional affairs and physical affairs, always seem to start with people making not such great decisions about small things in a relationship, that open the door to much large transgressions, until they're at a point where no matter which direction they take, there is going to be pain and repercussions from the relationship they choose to leave behind.

I think you are on a very good path here, and I am just here to cheer you on, support you in these good choices, and wish you the continued strength of mind to follow this path up, away from him, away from Prog, and eventually away from this addiction in general. I'm sure your family is so much happier to have you around more.

amother

Chambray

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 9:21 pm

amother OP wrote:

He wrote to me again. I'm copy/pasting it to here for those who know Hebrew. For those who don't, in a nutshell what he wrote is that I should have just blocked him and not Prog.

אמת? התלבטתי רבות אם לכתוב משהו.
גם אין כל כך סיכוי שתקראי.
אולי רק בגלל הסקרנות יש סיכויון קל.
אז אתמוך יתידותי על יצר הסקרנות הטבעי כדי לשלול את הטענה הזאת.

התלבטתי רבות על הכתיבה, משום שמצד אחד זה מרגיש מאוד לא מתאים לכתוב אחרי הסערה שנוצרה.
(ואצלי עוד לא נרגעה לגמרי, משום מה).
מצד שני, היה קשה לי להמשיך הלאה לגמרי בלי לכתוב מה שהפריע לי.
וכתבתי את הדברים אחרי הרבה מחשבות.
הענין שהן באות זו אחר זו, לא מסודרות כל כך, ולכן הכתיבה גם היא משקפת את חוסר הרגיעה הלזה.

וכלפי מה הדברים אמורים?
כלפי ההחלטה הגורפת שלך לחסום את פרוג.
ואני, איני מקבל מהם דיבידנדים על כל לקוח, אף איני מכירם כראוי, אין לי נגיעה מצד זה.
איני אלא ניק עלום שקיבל הרבה דברים טובים מהפורום הנפלא הזה.

ומהדברים שלך אני למד שגם את נהנית מהשיתוף שם.
מקבוצת התמיכה שהיית חברה בה.
מהמידע שהיה ב'איש את רעהו'.
ועוד.
אלא מאי?
באה הסערה האחרונה וטרפה את הקלפים כולם.
החריבה והשמידה עד שהחלטת לסגור הכל.

ובאמת, בתור 'סייג' את לכאורה צודקת.
אבל כשאני מנתח את הדברים כפי שהם מהצד שלי, נראה לי שלא פרוג הוא הבעייתי.
המייל וההתכתבות מצידי הם הבעייתיים.
אם כבר, מה שאת צריכה זה לחסום את הכתובת מייל שלי.
בלעדיה, גם השיתוף הציבורי שם היה מקבל פנים אחרות.
גם ההומור הציבורי הבין-מגדרי יש לו גבולות ברורים שנראה לי שאינם נפרצים (בפרוג).
ואם יש ניק בעייתי אחד (כגון אני, במקרה הזה), יש אפשרות לחסום אותו.

אז מה אני מתכוין בכל המלל הזה?
שמצד אחד אני מבין את ההחלטה, ואיך אוכל לכתוב להיפך, וכי אני יכול לקבל עלי את האחריות לפירצה אפשרית נוספת?
מצד שני, אני חושב שעיקר הבעיה היא לא שם.
עיקר הבעיה היא במייל, שהוא דבר אישי יותר.
ובזה אני אשם.
לא הייתי צריך לשלוח מייל. (זה אכן נראה כמו לתת עזרה, אבל בגלל הבעיה המגדרית יש בזה חסרון שצריך לקחת בחשבון. לא תועיל לי ההתנצלות של הדאגה כשיש אחריה אפשרות של חרטה גדולה).

נראה לי שאם הדברים היו ממשיכים להתנהל מעל הפורום בלבד, לא היתה בזה בעיה גם מצידך.

הענין הוא שאני לא כל כך בטוח בזה.
ולכן, אם באמת נראה לך שעצם החשיפה לפורום וההשתתפות בו גורמת לקירור החינוך השמרני, תמחקי את כל האמור לעיל, ואין לי אלא לומר לך שתחזקנה ידייך על ההחלטה האמיצה שלך!!

בקיצור, כתבתי כל מה שהיה לי בראש להגיד.
קצת סבוך, קצת מעורפל, קצת הגיגי.
אבל אלה הם הצדדים.
ועיקר מה שחשבתי עליו הוא, שאולי בגללי הפסדת דברים טובים שהיו לך.
ועל כך התנצלותי שנית (ולא כמו שכתבת שאני לא צריך להתנצל. כי פתיחת שרשור לחוד וזרימה לחוד).

היי שלום,
ויהי רצון שתראי הצלחה בכל מה שתעשי!

He's very creepy.

My Hebrew's not so good, buy that's way too many words for, "Please return to Prog and block me."

Also, didn't you delete your email? How was he able to contact you?

Maybe tell him that you will have your husband answer for you next time. ..Or maybe it's better to ignore him and delete your account on Prog if you haven't already.

amother

Chambray

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 9:36 pm

amother OP wrote:

Good point. Done. He's blocked. Now I have to decide if I'm reporting him or not.

Just caught up... OP, I feel it's dangerous to keep your email open. Whatever you decide - to report him or to delete your email now - do it right away.

And what if he DOES know that you're the one who reported him? So what?

He is breaking site rules, he's acting creepy and untzniusly; he may be doing this to other women too for all you know.

You don't owe him anything. He's a man who's trying to hold on to an emotional connection with an aishes ish.

amother

Whitesmoke

Sat, Oct 28 2023, 9:50 pm

Agree, this is not a true talmid chacham. This is a smart individual who knows a lot of Torah yet is trying to strike up a relationship with an אשת איש which is playing with fire. Please have rachmanus on other married women on the site who he will turn his attention to next( if he isn’t already doing so) and report him