going to cheder the day of the upshern

Chanie

Thu, Nov 03 2005, 2:22 pm

I always thought that the day of ones upshern, the boy goes to cheder and does that whole thing with honey. My son is having his hair cutting next week, and everyone I speak to here in Montreal, tells me that it's done at 5, by the hachnosas L'cheder.
I've never heard of this before.
I just got off the phone with my sister in Tzfat who's son got upshernished 2 weeks ago, and she did do this in a chabad cheder.
I wanted to hear what other people say about this. I'd appreciate everyones opinions, especially Lubavitchers.
Thanks

Tovah

Thu, Nov 03 2005, 5:49 pm

chani maybe tell the school that u want to do it. I'm surprised that they don't.

Rochel Leah

Thu, Nov 03 2005, 7:29 pm

I think you could ask the teacher if you could do it in class the next day. but I know the one that they do when they go to Pre-1-Aleph, they make a big deal about it. honey over alpeh beis in a tanya and the parents throw candy at the child , and a few other things.

did anyone ever do a peeled hard boiled egg with the words of "torah Tziva " painted on it with something edible?

basmalkah

Thu, Nov 03 2005, 9:03 pm

People do bring their upshernish boys to yeshiva on the 3rd b-day. Bring your son on his birthday - and when he's in Pre-1A he'll do it again. No big deal Wink

mommy2

Thu, Nov 03 2005, 9:30 pm

Chanie, I knowhere in Montreal its not really done but I think its more out of ignorance.. I know that my sister has some kind of booklet on the minhagim for an upshernish, and you supposed to do it all on the day of the upsherin. She does it in Crown heights. So why not start something good here in Montreal? Smile

Motek

Thu, Nov 03 2005, 9:43 pm

I see no purpose in doing it twice. You do it once, at the right time. Why not call a veteran mechanech and ask?

Rochel Leah

Fri, Nov 04 2005, 11:07 am

Motek, My fil is the teacher of the class that does the hachanasa lecheder on the day before school starts..I will ask him why they do it then and not in the garderie when the child turns three.

Motek

Tue, Nov 08 2005, 11:46 am

Quote:

As a child progresses, after his parents teach him at home for a certain time, he is taken to a cheder to study under a teacher. Although there is no specific age stated when this should be done, it is common practice in certain communities to begin at the age of three, on the day of or shortly after the upsherinish.

see:

http://www.sichosinenglish.org.....6.htm

it has all the details including the tallis, Tanya, honey, alef-beis, Vayikra, Torah tziva, honey cake, hard boiled egg, tzedaka, candies

Rochel Leah

Tue, Nov 08 2005, 2:25 pm

I asked my fil (who has taught pre 1 aleph for 25 years) adn said as follows. he knows in new york they do it three. people here mostly wait till 5 when they go into his class, but for those who do want to do it at three they ask the rebbe of the class above his-Grade one.

the reason why they do it at 5 here is because hachanassa lecheder should happen when a child begins learning Chumash..nowadays they only begin in pre one aleph or grade one. in the times of the rebeim they were learning chumash at three years old..

TzenaRena

Wed, Nov 09 2005, 3:07 am

Isn't the lashon when the child goes to cheder? I know there is an answer that (I think) Rabbi Levi Goldstein (long time 1st grade Rebbe in OT) received from the Rebbe about this. He asked if he should wait till the child begins cheder (rather than gan - kindergarten) and the Rebbe said that Gan is Cheder, they learn Alef Bais, brachos and so on.

I'm sure this letter is in print, just don't remember where. Maybe the upsherenish book.

JEWISHMAMA

Wed, Nov 09 2005, 3:58 am

Here we always do it when the boys are 3 years old. I have never heard of anyone waiting longer til now.

amother

Wed, Nov 09 2005, 7:15 am

a heard that since it's done in Montreal this way, some people do the intro to cheder in gan symbolically on the day rather then in actually cheder since there will be one in Pre-1-A anyways.
I'm thinking of doing this, but since today is the upshern, and I do not have time to bake a honey cake this morning, I'm thinking of asking the teachers for time to do it tomorrow. (when he comes in to school for the first time with short hair)
What do you think of it being done by a female Morah?
Chanie

Pearl

Wed, Nov 09 2005, 7:47 am

thanks for the link, Motek, it's very interesting! I have never been to this in a cheider, only to the family celebrations of chabad and it's very nice.

anyone know of a link to non lubavitch customs?

sarahd

Wed, Nov 09 2005, 2:27 pm

Rochel Leah wrote:

in the times of the rebeim they were learning chumash at three years old..

Are you quite sure about that? I can't imagine it being so. Three year olds learning Chumash? Which three-year old (except a prodigy) can understand Chumash?

TzenaRena

Wed, Nov 09 2005, 2:41 pm

The boy gets wrapped up in a tallis, on the way to and from cheder so that he should not see anything tomeh, on this day when he begins to learn Torah. AFAIk we try to protect him from seeing non-kosher animals, non-Jews for that entire day.

I was wondering if anyone came across something about that he shouldn't see a woman who is niddah either. Somehow I seem to recall seeing something to that effect?

The "heilige" cake for sure should be baked by a woman who is tehorah, or a young unmarried girl (preferred).

roza

Wed, Nov 09 2005, 3:42 pm

niddah is not supposed to touch the child on 'cheder' day. but never heard of not seeing...