Is anybody excited about Yom Tov?

yehudis

Thu, Oct 27 2005, 8:42 pm

We had a not yet observant guest on Yom Tov, and we talked about why non-religious Jews choose to go to Reform places for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur rather than Orthodox. She said that when they go to a Reform place, they feel the holiday atmosphere, people talk about spiritual things, they feel more involved in the services, etc. In an Orthodox shul, on the women's side, people are falling asleep, nobody says anything spiritual, they just hand you a book and tell you when to stand, etc.

So I keep thinking about what she said because the truth is, she is right that Orthodox Jewish women are not very excited about the holidays. In shul, women complain about the cooking, the lack of sleep, the overtired kids who had too much sugar and refuse to go to sleep, the clothes that kids manage to ruin as soon as they put it on. The day after Yom Tov, everybody talks about "recovering" from Yom Tov. Why aren't we more excited?

chavamom

Thu, Oct 27 2005, 8:54 pm

Wow. No, I get really excited for yom tov. I'm a bit disapointed that I gave birth erev sukkos, b/c that is my favorite time of year and I felt like I sort of 'missed' it this year. I went out to the sukka to hear kiddush and hamotzei and then ate inside Sad

. But normally, I love it. Maybe b/c I like to cook? Cleaning, not so much Wink

, but I pick out special things to make and help the kids with the decorations. I even get excited for Pesach - yes, there is a bit of panic, but once it is here, I love it! Am I a freak?

Motek

Fri, Oct 28 2005, 8:38 am

yehudis wrote:

In an Orthodox shul, on the women's side, people are falling asleep, nobody says anything spiritual, they just hand you a book and tell you when to stand, etc.

And I'm impressed when I see women in shul Shabbos morning, davening instead of relaxing at home. They don't HAVE to be there, but they are. The spiritual things we say in shul are the tefillos. No, we don't do any touchy-feeling New Age sharing as someone strums on a guitar and recites a poem. Remember that in Reform and Conservative synagogues they make up the davening as they go, cutting it down to fit their schedules and inclinations.

Tefilla is an avoda, one which focuses on G-D, not on self. Those who find davening boring, tedius, unstimulating (like all of us, at times) are not approaching davening right.

At our Yom Tov table though, we have stimulating conversation about everything, spiritual and un.

I was pleased when I got a message from a friend that her friend, a BT, who had a Yom Tov meal with us, really enjoyed it, the conversation etc.

Quote:

So I keep thinking about what she said because the truth is, she is right that Orthodox Jewish women are not very excited about the holidays.

uh, talk about generalizations! negative ones, at that!

Quote:

In shul, women complain about the cooking, the lack of sleep, the overtired kids who had too much sugar and refuse to go to sleep, the clothes that kids manage to ruin as soon as they put it on. The day after Yom Tov, everybody talks about "recovering" from Yom Tov. Why aren't we more excited?

wait, that sounds like Succos, not like Rosh Hashana/Yom Kippur! And here too, a lot depends on the mother's attitude and her year-round parenting too.

imanut

Fri, Oct 28 2005, 9:22 am

all year I wait for the next upcoming yom tov since, now that I have kids, it's the only time I get to shul. plus my husband can help me with the kids all day, and usually we're with family.
this year I was so disappointed-we all got sick and didn't get to go to shul.
oh well, hopefully next year.

\

Tefila

Fri, Oct 28 2005, 9:27 am

You know when we women complain to others besides our chevra conc our kids and Yom Tov etc how hard everything is then goodness why someone would choose a Torah Lifestyle if it's soo hard.
Yes I kvetch embarrassed

but laugh too and b"h I always say Yom Tov however hard it seems what would we do without shabbos and Yom Tov b/c more then the Jewish people having kept the Shabbos the Shabbos is whats kept the Jewish people Exclamation

RedVines

Fri, Oct 28 2005, 9:27 am

I started feeling the same way, OY VEY the yomim tovim are so much work and I was kvetcy, but than my DH told me of his hachlata which was to really enjoy everyday no matter what it entails, even if it means going to shul constantly and eating all the time (okay this wasnt exactly his hachlata but I cant remember it verbatim right now, all I know is that it changed my outlook) , so I really worked on my self to stop kvetching and enjoy!

lucky

Fri, Oct 28 2005, 9:43 am

We ARE spiritual rather than talk about spirituality.

Succos is my favorite Yom Tov. But this year I actually was too tired too fully enjoy it. Does that mean I value it less??
When you rest after candlelighting on a hectic Friday, what will your guest think? Oh, shabbos is soo hard for her.
Yes, its hard, but we love it and live and is part of us.(not just something we talk about.)

yehudis

Fri, Oct 28 2005, 9:59 am

My question was not so much what to tell the guest. Of course, you're right that there is more under the complaints. I would say even more -- I think we approach all mitzvos, including the holidays, as hard work, our main work in life, whereas the Reform people think of it as recreation and something to be enjoyed.

Nevertheless, shouldn't we also be excited? Or maybe I should ask -- how do we get excited?

shanie5

Fri, Oct 28 2005, 12:42 pm

stop thinking about all the work we MAKE OURSELVES DO to honor the yomtov, and start thinking about why we have it
do we really need those extra cakes/salads/sides etc? if the house isnt perfectly clean- it will still be yomtov.
we make it harder on ourselves than it has to be. we cant use the excuse that it is "lekovod yom tov" if we then complain about all the work the yom tov causes us.

Tefila

Fri, Oct 28 2005, 1:12 pm

Quote:

I get excited by experiencing all the new Yom Tov sights, smells, actions that we do, through the eyes of my children

Yep b"h for kids Tongue Out

but not just that look around us and see how stressed out people r w/h mail and making phone calls and checking comp etc on shabbops no matter what we r forced to look at things differently and it's family community time instead of rush rush always

willow

Sat, Oct 29 2005, 10:13 am

shanie5 wrote:

Shanie5 I totally agree/ Smile

I remember as a girl eruv yom tov my father telling my mother to stop cooking and that he would be satisfied with one less kugel to have a well rested and happy wife.
I also find that when I say to myself its more importnet that I appreciate yom tov then wowing the guests with tons. I try instead to use that time to learn something about the yom tov so that I can appreciate it more. It makes a big difference when I know why we are celebrating tom tov and gives the whole atmosphere a lot more spirtual emphasis. Wink

suomynona

Sat, Oct 29 2005, 12:51 pm

I love every minute of shabbos & yom tov.
(Maybe because I don't have children yet Very Happy

)
I guess mainly because I find it so relaxing. It's the only time I'm not working.
Even the past 2 years when I made yom tov & it was very hectic before, once it comes, I love it.
When people complain about 3 day yom tov, I always say I'll take 10 days.

Rivka

Sat, Oct 29 2005, 1:41 pm

This time of year is my worst. I don't mind Yom Kippur, I just wish I could go to shul, so I complain that I am not in shul...oh well.
But I don't like Rosh Hashanah coz I don't like the whole apple and honey and everything and sukkos is the same, so if you aren't eating at home, which we can't for sukkos it's a bit annoying.
Then there are the wasps. Women do not have to be in the succah anyway, but as this year there weren't too many wasps I was in it.
Usually I eat inside if it gets too much for me.

This year was the worst coz I didn't know if I was coming or going, I had work and I finished erev Yom Tov and Erev Shabbos an hour before it began so that was hard and stressful. So I got fed up after a bit and siumchat torah should be also for the women, why do the men have all the fun in shul, why don't shuls make something for women? They have stuff for women but that's chol hamoed and really I work then. So it was very boring for me and the eating all the time gets to me. I was dying for a fast day after the yom tov.

Pesach isn't so bad, the only reason I complain is because I work and it's mad before pesach and the boss doesn't let anyone take off for pesach so I can't spend pesach anywhere else.

Mandy

Sun, Oct 30 2005, 12:10 am

Quote:

Or maybe I should ask -- how do we get excited?

for every negative thing you say, say one positive.

I am a bit finished with all the reform bashing. Is everyone done ? We ARE spiritual while they just talk about it, we see judaism as our main work while they just see it as entertainment. Let's refocus on yehudis' question which is how do we come to appreciate our traditions. I hope it is not inherently connected with bashing others.

roza

Sun, Oct 30 2005, 12:27 am

you know, Yehudis, in your case, if women in your shul are not serious about davening or are not so happy on yom tov, then I would find another shul or stay home and relax (after all-it's shabbos menucha and moadim lesimcha).
I find that the 'culture' of the women's side is different from shul to shul.
I don't think that the issue is 'reform vs orthodox'.