After School Moodiness

Motek

Thu, Nov 11 2004, 9:54 am

RG wrote:

11 months? have pity on the teachers and their families who only get summer vacation and nothing else.

what about electricians, computer programmers, doctors, etc.?

I know, your husband is a Rebi and you and he must look forward to the summer, but I see that many Rebis work in the summer just as hard, as daycamp directors or Rebis, or in bungalow colonies and camps. They just can't afford not to. And after all, just about every other profession entails working year-round.

micki wrote:

you know- I love having my kids home

you know - I love hearing that

it's especially nice to hear from someone with four little ones

gryp

Thu, Nov 11 2004, 10:22 am

you know why teachers have to work just as hard in the summer, and after hours? because they get paid nothing in their main teaching job. if the principal would add another month to school the entire salary of every teacher would have to be raised a big percentage. that way the teachers wouldnt have to work their brains out during after hours and vacation time and would be happier teaching just 9-4 every day even for 11 months.

this subject has been brought up many many times. I believe even the Rebbe spoke about having less vacation and more school. its not going to happen without more pay, and since the schools doint have extra money laying around for that, it becomes a vicious cycle.

I dont know how the jobs are of electricians, doctors, computer experts,... all jobs are different. some are physically exhausting, some are mentally exhausting, some are both. I dont think they can be compared especially not when it comes to salary...

Rochel Leah

Thu, Nov 11 2004, 10:53 am

RG, correct me if I am wrong, but doesnt the rebbe aslo ay the importance of camp , because it is an informal stting you could get so much more into the kids... I know that both my brothers, camp is what got them into learning, where they had other motivational trips, and outlets.

In SA there are bo overnight camps, so my bros come to the us for camps, and my parents are thrilled with what comes out of their experience...and when they return to their yeshivos they have extra zeal in learning....

micki, I know that forgetting shouldnt be an excues, but from a teachers background, when I taught those first 2 months were such a waste of time cuz they litraly forgot everything... so the real solution is that during the summer parents should review school work so they dont fall behind... but what do u say about the same amount of school, but vactions spread out , as I posted earlier?

gryp

Thu, Nov 11 2004, 12:20 pm

the discussion I was talking about where the Rebbe talked about lengthening the school year is actually referring to the time in between camp and school. (you reminded me of that Rochel Leah...) just the 2 1/2 weeks.

the reason I know it has been brought up in general to the teachers is because parents complained their kids are bored during those 2 weeks, so they wish the kids could be in school where their teachers can entertain them...

Motek

Thu, Nov 11 2004, 2:42 pm

from a letter from the Rebbe 5 Av 5715: In general, my view is known that there is no time now for vacations at all. On the contrary, and for a number of reasons. If only I had the strength, I would have abolished it in the past, and all the more so in the present and future.

Sicha, parshas Devarim 5746: The concept of vacation in yeshiva, cheder, or Talmud Torah is something undesirable ... Since the Torah is "our life and the length of our days," an interruption in life is simply impossible. If only this vacation would be abolished..

gryp

Thu, Nov 11 2004, 7:23 pm

is camp considered vacation? there is a lot of learning that goes on there.

imagine this: 12 months of school with camp-like activities and trips every once in a while throughout the months.

vacation is very precious to me, but I am willing to give it up if there are changes in the school system. ie, off days, bigger salaries,...

most yeshivas I know have school 6 days a week and no snow days. some (older boys) have seder even on shabbos. when they go to camp they learn there too. only 2 1/2 weeks vacation throughout the entire year. cant the kids stay at home and have a learning schedule there?

Thu, Nov 11 2004, 8:52 pm

Wow - I don't know where to start. My kids are still little so maybe I'm not "getting it" Last summer, my kids went to camp for 5 weeks, we went to Toronto for 2 weeks and the rest of the time we hung. My boys love playing with each other and I loved having them home. It was wonderufl not to be having to rush them somewhere - or bark orders at them - get dressed, eat, hurry, hurry, hurry. They grow up so quickly, there's so much time for them to be seriously learning - why do we have to take away their summer times too? I know what the Rebbe wrote - I'm just not buying it for my "babies" - please don't pm me that I'm being sacriligious. There is more to learning than just books.

As far as the 11th month at our cheder goes, I am more against how the decision was made than having my kid go to school. It was never put to the parent body - this is not a decision that should have been made unilaterally by a few people (a self appointed Board).

As far as the Rebbes making more money? NO WAY. From what I understand, their salaries are just spread out over the 11 months than 10 months - the Rebbes aren't thrilled either (nor were they consulted). The school, however, makes additional money from tuition.

As far as kids falling behind if they don't start school until Pre !-A - that's just not true - what is better than having a loving mother take care of her child - the security a kid feels will be the foundation of his life. Each child is different and ready for school accordingly - some need the social interaction, some have older siblings and are ready for school earlier, you, the mother, the one the Abishter appointed for that little neshama, has to be the judge.

This is a sore subject for me, as you can see - I'm probably not expressing myself well, but I wanted to write something (despite being interrupted every 2 1/2 minutes by my 3 year old who ended up having a 2 1/2 hour nap at 3:30 this afternoon).

zuncompany

Sat, Nov 13 2004, 7:15 pm

Chicago added it before I was married. I think it was the first year the year I got married. It was weird- graduation was our wedding day (yud beis Av). Yes, it was to keep them from going to certain camps. I think its the parents choice to decide what camps are okay... not the school. Girls in Chi in HS also have school half day sunday. The other half they do chesed I heard. I think its a bit much. I don't want to get rid of my kids. I want to enjoy them. I want to spend time with them! When am I supposed to once they start school though? After school? Not. Shabbos? Not really cause shul, playing at friend's houses, Shabbos programs, and some places have Shabbos learning. Sunday? Not anymore cause they have school than too. And now the little bit time they have between school and camp is being taken away... no offense but I will be taking my kids out of school than so I can spend some time with them. Oh well if they miss out on class. I carried them for nine months allowing them to grow develop, went through surgery just to give birth to them. I think I want more than 5 mins at the end of the day to enjoy watching them grow and develop.

Sara

Yael

Sat, Nov 13 2004, 7:48 pm

thats right, I agree!
I would totally take my kids out of school early or let them take the day off once in a while just to let them relax and so we can have fun together.
life isnt only about school and learning. most of the true preparation for real life that lasts throughout childhood, is learnt at home.

when my son starts school at age 3 if he is too tired at the end of a 7 hour day of school, I'll just take him out early. he doesnt need more than 3-4 hours a day of social interaction at that age. the rest is just babysitting, which I'd gladly trade for more time with him.

Quote:

the hanhala wants mind-control over their students and doesn't want them exposed to ideas alien to the p.c. ideas the hanhala has

whats p.c.?

Rochel Leah

Sat, Nov 13 2004, 8:20 pm

I am totally in agreement with you guys... if I wouldnt have to work I would keep them home as long as possible and I would also take out early etc...growing up my mother and father would let us take school off if they saw we were too presurised. this was from when we were young till high school. obviously if we were just trying to get out of school , my parents wold make us go. there are more importantthings to get stressed out and our health came first. in sa, school lasted till 3 only in first grade, I dont know why here in montreal the day goes on for so long...

Tefila

Sat, Nov 13 2004, 8:21 pm

zuncompany

Quote:

no offense but I will be taking my kids out of school than so I can spend some time with them. Oh well if they miss out on class. I carried them for nine months allowing them to grow develop, went through surgery just to give birth to them. I think I want more than 5 mins at the end of the day to enjoy watching them grow and develop

I take my kids out every once in awhile and just explain to teachers they had an appointment what I do'nt tell them is who with (yes they had an appointment with me and that is 'sometimes' more important)