Sleeping in the Succah.

gryp

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 8:23 pm

Quote:

What about Yaakov Avinu who had no problem sleeping in the most holiest place on earth? Confused

Stem, I could only guess the answer to your question based on what I learned in Chassidus. I'm not saying my guess is right, just what I think my be the answer.
Yes, Har Hamoriah itself is holy, but before the Beis Hamikdash (and it's keilim) I don't think it had the status of "holiest place on earth." I learned in Tanya how the Shechina comes down and "attaches" itself to the Aron in the Kodesh Hakadoshim, etc etc, and that results in the highest revelation of G-dliness. I can try to find the link if you want to read it inside, and I can ask if my theory is correct.

Besides, being that it is Yaakov Avinu, one of the Avos who we know were on an incredibly high level when it came to Avodas Hashem, I am sure there is a sicha on it which explains the bigger picture and deeper meaning behind the small detail in the story which is familiar to us.

gryp

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 8:47 pm

Or maybe it had that potential? I don't know, I'm only guessing. I'm sure there's an explanation somewhere, I just haven't learned it.

It's a different kind of holiness, in any case, when the place itself has kedusha, and when there is an actually revelation of G-dliness shining down on us from above.
Perhaps we can make a mashal of this to the sun- when you have a place that always has a warm climate, it's different than standing directly under the rays of the sun in a colder climate.

greenfire

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 9:28 pm

Ima'la wrote:

Does anyone know of any women who sleep in the sukkah? I mean with DH (when no one else is there, obviously) - not as a feminist thing.

hey I posted last week ... in another succos thread that I cannot find ... what it said in the Kitzur Shulchan Oruch ... where is that thread ...

it was about "dwelling" in a succah ...

Kitzur Shulcan Oruch chapter 135 dwelling in the Sukkoh ... Vayikra 23:42 ... "you shall dwell in the succah for seven days"

"בסוכת תשבו שבעת ימים

During this holiday, the essential aspects of one's dwelling should be in the sukkoh. ... eat, drink, study, relax, and sleep in the sukkoh. .... s-xual relations are permitted in the sukkoh, for this is the essence of the mitzvah, that a person should dwell there together with his wife. ... "

amother

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 9:41 pm

Green, that thread was locked, and I would guess that it was by a lub. mod. After reading through this whole thread and the one from last year I can def. understand why!

Yakira

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 11:09 pm

Where's the option 'noone sleeps in the sukkah'? Until we have our own home and our own sukkah, that's what my answer will be. Growing up, we lived in an apartment building so usually noone slept there, occasionally my brothers would sleep at a neighboring building's sukkah which was connected to a building with a 24-hour guard.

greenfire

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 12:30 am

amother wrote:

Green, that thread was locked, and I would guess that it was by a lub. mod. After reading through this whole thread and the one from last year I can def. understand why!

all I did was copy the kitzur shulchan oruch ... fact ... I should imagine a bunch of frum ladies can handle that ...

shalhevet

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 3:43 am

The whole essence of Judaism is taking the mundane/earthly and bringing it to a level of kedusha by performing mitzvas. So we have halachas about how/what to eat, how to go to the bathroom, how to tie shoe laces, how to sleep at night etc etc.

Sukka is the very essence of this. A person can sleep in the sukka (and, for that matter in EY) and be doing a mitzva every moment, with his entire body. If the sukka is too holy to sleep in, then why does the Torah give us a mitzva to sleep there?

(For example, there are halachas of what you are not allowed to do in the Beis Hamikdash because of its kedusha, such as wearing shoes. But what you are saying is that we shouldn't bring korbanos, ch"v, because the Beis Hamikdash is too holy to do mundane things like have blood around.)

catonmylap

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 7:14 am

shalhevet wrote:

They are following their minhagim.....Why does it have to logical? And why do we have to knock it???

gryp

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 8:41 am

Quote:

The whole essence of Judaism is taking the mundane/earthly and bringing it to a level of kedusha by performing mitzvas.

Where did you learn that, shalhevet? That's Chassidus straight and clear.

shalhevet

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:08 am

GR wrote:

Quote:

The whole essence of Judaism is taking the mundane/earthly and bringing it to a level of kedusha by performing mitzvas.

Where did you learn that, shalhevet? That's Chassidus straight and clear.

LOL, GR - it's Torah Very Happy

Yey, we agree on something on this thread. Cheers

shalhevet

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 11:43 am

GR wrote:

But where did you learn that? What source did you learn that from, I'm curious to know.

I really can't think of a specific source right now. It's something that comes up again and again. It seems mamash to be at the core of Torah. We get up in the morning and wash our hands, get dressed by putting our hand in our right sleeve first, tie our left shoe first...

Now I can think specifically of Mesillas Yesharim. Kedusha - using gashmi (physical) things to serve Hashem is on a higher level than prishus (refraining). It's a greater level of avodas Hashem to eat lesheim shamayim (which is not an easy thing to do) than to fast.

So, yes, sleeping in a sukka (sorry, couldn't resist the example Wink

) is serving Hashem with our entire body; doing a mitzva even while sleeping.

amother

Sun, Sep 30 2007, 10:10 am

re: Lubavich minhag not to sleep in the sukah - yes it's due to tza'ar but not the physical kind, as was already pointed out here, the physical tza'ar doesn't keep the true Lubavicher from desisting from drinking even water when there's no kosher suka in sight.
the minhag dates from the 2nd Lubavicher Rebbe, of whom it was said that he was so full of chassidus that if you were to scratch his arm, he would drip chasidus and not blood. B'kitzur, the suka is representative of the shechina and he was of such a madreiga that he felt the shechina and was mitzta'er to sleep in the shechina's presence and was therefore unable to sleep in the suka.
Whether you wnat to say that his chaisidm didn't sleep in the suka becuase how could they dare succeed to do what the rebbe couldn't, or becuase they're mitzta'er that they're not on the madreiaga or whatever - this is debatable. In any case, since then each rebbe didn't dare to do differently.
and that's the story of how the minhag originated.

Ruchel

Sun, Sep 30 2007, 10:16 am

Quote:

the physical tza'ar doesn't keep the true Lubavicher from desisting from drinking even water when there's no kosher suka in sight.

are there people who don't even drink out of the sukka?
It's the first year my community has a sukka, so before that people in apartments just didn't do the mitzva... but they were not chabad.

gryp

Sun, Sep 30 2007, 10:25 am

yes, Ruchel. we don't. the men, anyway.

last year this time my father flew roundtrip cross-country for my nephew's bris. he wanted to arrange for a Sukkahmobile to meet him at the different various airports he would be stopping at but he couldn't leave the secure area. so he starved and got back home in not the greatest shape, needless to say.

Mommy3.5

Mon, Oct 01 2007, 2:06 am

GR wrote:

Since no one has bothered to finish the sentence, I'll do it and hope I don't have to do it again.

You are supposed to sleep in the sukkah.... EXCEPT if it causes you tza'ar, you don't have to.

Tzaar would also be eating in the sukkah in the pouring rain. According to many poskim, it is actually against halacha to do this. and may come under the category of chassid shoyte. (this is according to what my FIL said, he is a posek)

Sleeping in the sukkah rarely causes tzaar. Although this year my FIL did not sleep there the first 2 nights as it was 85 and humid, and it was tzaar enough just to eat there. (my kids 3-6, thought it was the greatest thing ever, and DH likes it too)

gryp

Mon, Oct 01 2007, 9:00 am

Tza'ar can be any type pf tza'ar. We eat in the Sukkah in pouring rain- soup, anyone? LOL

the specific type of tza'ar that I was referring to though is not weather-related or for comfort reasons.