Are there rabannim who hold it's assur to have a smartphone?

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 9:38 am

I have a question....why is anyone opposed to filters? This comes up over and over again in threads. "I can just close a pop up" "I trust myself and my husband" "If someone chooses to look at inappropriate stuff, that's their problem" etc etc All the excuses in the world, but that is justification, not a solid reason why one should not have a filter. I have yet to see a good reason not to. If you need to look at things that are commonly filtered, you can choose a filter that lets you customize and whitelist. If you feel it's sexist to only have men be filtered, you can both be filtered with each of you having half the password. I see no good reason not to have a filter. I've heard of people complaining filters that slow down their computers. Well, there are other ones out there. There is really no reason people should be on principle NOT to filter!

m in Israel

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 10:03 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

You are touching on what I think is a very critical piece of this issue, and I have a theory about this. But I think this should honestly be the crux of a discussion on this topic. Ranting about iphones or not iphones misses the point, which is that internet access on whatever device you have MUST be filtered.

Now for my theory on why people are so resistant to filters:

Our society today values the free flow of ideas above almost all else. For many people having unlimited access to all information is a specific, positive value, and therefore the knee jerk reaction against any form of "censorship".

I once read an article somewhere that was encouraging the use of filters, and a woman left a scathing comment lambasting the concept of filters -- her problem? That once when attempting to get a recipe off a filtered internet, the site was blocked because the words "chicken breasts" in the recipe triggered the filter. She was using this as proof that internet filtering was extreme and ridiculous.

Now, if you want to say you don't feel filtering is necessary for whatever reason, fine, say so. But if you agree in theory that there is too much inappropriate content on the internet, then don't you think it is worth missing out on a few recipes to protect yourself??? Meaning the way this woman was writing, the fact that something was blocked unnecessarily was a real disaster -- one on level with the risk of accessing pritzus!

Once you start thinking about this, you find this attitude, either conscious or subconscious, all over our culture. I have a lot more to say on this topic, but I am in a rush right now, and can't really articulate my thoughts as well as I would like to.

princessleah

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 10:18 am

I have a pop-up blocker. It works well. I don't go to inappropriate sites. The trashiest I get is looking at celebrity pictures or something on Us Weekly. My husband's biggest taivah is D&D message boards. He spends about as much time on them as I do on Imamother. Confused

As far as a filter is concerned, I think I will get one when my kids are using the internet unmonitored. I'm concerned not just about s-exual stuff but violent content as well. I think the resistance, at least for me, is feeling that I am an adult and can control myself/make my own decisions and don't need a virtual chaperone. I walk into Starbucks, get coffee, and maintain the self-control necessary to not buy a croissant (which is A LOT more tempting to me than looking at [filth]!)

I think this is a hashkafic issue.

My hashkafa: looking at naked pictures of people is assur.
Other hashkafa: Internet/iphones are assur.
Me: eating bugs is not ok. Check broccoli/strawberries carefully.
Other: Not possible. Do not eat fresh broccoli.

I think it just comes down to a hashkafa of gedarim vs. non.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 10:18 am

m in Israel wrote:

That was quite articulate, nonetheless, and I'm anticipating some more on this discussion.

I have come across people -- real yarei shamayim to boot -- who resist the concept of filters but for no reason I find valid (yes, a chicken breast recipe, and yes, because they can just close the website they accidentally end up on)....but so what? If their chicken breast recipe is all that important, they can whitelist everything from allrecipes.com or whatever. Or even allow the keyword in; it will still filter against other shmutz (and viruses Wink

)

I have said this before, but I have no problem telling my personal experience again. In high school, I accidentally added a letter to the URL of a very popular, neutral website (I'm not going to say what it is in case people try to replicate my experience Wink

) and ended up on a very disgusting website. It's too easy to make a typo. I still remember those gross images in the seconds I was scrambling to close it. Images stick with you, whether you like it or not. And yes sometimes it can draw people farther in, or it may not (like it didn't with me), but I was still affected by seeing that absolute shmutz. And no, I was not a sheltered Bais Yaakov girl. I had watched TV growing up...

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 10:23 am

princessleah wrote:

The difference is a croissant would never fall into your lap at Starbucks without you opting for it. Inappropriate content (whether it's trash or violence or viruses) can easily fall in front of you on the internet. No one is against anti-virus software, are they? It's not always about self-control. I have too much real life experience with computers from personal use and my professional field to trust what will appear on the computer is exactly what I want it to.
A pop-up blocker is a great method BTW for a lot of the inappropriate stuff. So you're not really against filters. You just want to choose what to filter. And many filters do allow for that!

saw50st8

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 10:36 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I tried a filter once (I think K-9?). It slowed my computer down drastically and start up took forever.

My husband and I aren't around together all the time and if we share half the password, then how would that work? He needs to access a website and I'm not around or vice versa?

In addition, we both have android cell phones which cannot be filtered really.

I also think if my husband wants to look up information (or if I want to look up information) on sensitive topics, we should be able to without telling the other person. What if his friend confides in my husband that he has penile cancer and wants help with some information or support.

We use Opera and Chrome and since then I haven't gotten an inappropriate pop-up.

So yes, you could white list everything you need. I might filter for my kids when they get a bit older. I'm not opposed to it, I just think functionally it doesn't work well for us.

notshanarishona

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 11:09 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

My job includes a lot of internet research and I work from Home. Every single filter we have tried has ended with me being frustrated and having to keep override sites. Not because I am doing anything inappropriate -but because I go on a lot of medical sites. I have yet to find a practical filter even though hashkafically I would have one.

princessleah

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 11:14 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

You mean, where you live, croissants do not fall from the sky??????? We obviously do not live in the same community.
It's the same with the internet. I go to these websites mostly: facebook, imamother, some TV recap sites, and hulu. I don't really get any pop-ups. [filth] is not falling into my lap. After a bad malware experience, I tend not to click on sketchy-looking links.

Scrabble123

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 11:22 am

princessleah wrote:

I've had my own computer since I'm 2 years old, which obviously was updated with time. I had the first generation iphone and since them have had the new generations. I have an iPad. I have a laptop. I never had any "croissants" falling from the sky. People who think that are just misinformed. If you check out racy things, well then, yes you may have them falling into your lap. If you don't, then you won't.

Like Barbara, my electronics have never told me to do an aveira, and if I so wished, it would not be the internet that introduced me to it. I do agree that for some people the internet gives them easy access to shmutz, and that some people look out of curiosity later getting hooked. A filter is good, but I hate restrictions. For me a filter is more about keeping what I want don't want out rather than restricting myself.

proudmother1

Wed, Oct 29 2014, 11:40 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

[filth] and such will not fall into your lap quicker than the croissant at Starbucks.

If you sit and stare at the croissant, and choose to try it just once because no one is looking, then maybe the next time it will "fall" into your lap.
Same with lots of other inappropriate things.