Do you live in Israel and have a cleaner?!

grace413

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 1:59 pm

My makolet has creamed corn and I imagine many places with high concentrations of Americans will stock it.

I buy the shum givishi (granulated garlic) and I'm happy with it.

Over the years I have had the following types of people clean my house:
Non-religious Israeli woman
Non-religious American woman
Non-religious Russian couple
Non-religious Russian man
Religious European woman
Religious American/Israeli teenager

etky

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 2:03 pm

Shabbat I think she should be cut some slack as a very new olah.
I think that one of the things that people often find is disconcerting when arriving in Israel is that there are Jews are in all professions and in all walks of life, even those that in chul are considered not stereotypically "Jewish". It can be strange until you get used to it. I think actually that when you get used to it it's one of the nice things about living in Israel but it might take some time.

amother

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 3:00 pm

Sanguine wrote:

OK - I think we're way OT. We're supposed to be outraged about our lack of nannies (wouldn't have room to put one anyhow) and instead we're outraged about our lack of onion powder and creamed corn!! Rolling Laughter

OP - get your priorities straight.

hear hear!

And while we're on that topic, wouldn't it be nice if you could actually find some cucumbers in the store erev shabbos? I'm starting to find that those can be a luxury too. Oh, and onions, too!

amother

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 3:56 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I dont know who you are or where you live, but I have to tell you that your post is very judgmental and hurtful. First of all, I know that there is at least one poster from Israel here (dont know if she posts so much anymore) who actually cleans for a living. She is from america originally.
Second of all, what you find to be uncomfortable others find nice. I have neighbors who have a frum woman from a neighboring yishuv come clean. I think it would be so nice to have that.
And you are saying something terrible about hispanics as well, if you could not tell.
As for having a friend or cousin cleaning, there is nothing, I repeat, nothing degrading about cleaning someone's house. It is a job and in israel, not a badly paying one either and that is all. Please dont say your thoughts to anyone in real life. Because most people here in israel do NOT think that way.

No one wants to clean toilets. People become cleaners because they have no other choice. So it is well paid in Israel. That doesn't change the fact that its a job no one wants to do and if you didn't have to and you could afford not to you wouldn't do it. Even those mothers who are so proud of not having any cleaning help, deep down don't love cleaning toilets and wish they didn't have to do it. So why wish that on a fellow jew?

Dawling

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 3:58 pm

Dawling wrote:

Back to the original post, if you don't have a cleaner, I can check if the cleaning company I use can ship one over to you.
You have a choice- Russian, Israeli, American, Hispanic, male/female, can talk/can't talk, etc.
They're very considerate to people of all walks of life.
They can even send him/her in a discreet package so nobody knows it's a cleaner you ordered (shhh!) & then labels you as "lazy and spoilt".
(psst, that's why it's worthwhile to get the non-speaking cleaners, they can't reveal which lazy spoiled brats they've been to...)
Included in the package is a nice welcome letter outlining all the benefits of outsourcing domestic help so you don't feel guilty or useless, as well as a list of all the tzadikim from previous generations who used cleaning help but still got into Gan Eden.
(Where's the OP from the original original post, does she know what we started?)
Wink

I had to quote myself from the Antarctica spin off bec I really wanted the OP to see it.

Thanks for the good laugh! Cool

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 4:01 pm

amother wrote:

And you think a hispanic american does want to wash toilets (no I am not racist, Im using the example from the other post)? Or my sri lankan cleaning guy? Do you really think he wants to be cleaning out my toilets and scrubbing my bathrub? Um, no. Not even close.

What a terrible post. Really. I dont know if you are that same poster as before, but this is showing such true colors that are absolutely judgmental about people.

As etky said, in israel, every job is done by jews. The garbage collectors to the neuro surgeons. the mail men to the taxi drivers. the gardners (I actually know a few frum guys in america who do that one too) to the plumbers and electricians.

Amother, your argument here is a faulty one and not a very nice one.

Sanguine

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 4:10 pm

amother wrote:

Close your eyes and say "That's the beauty of a Jewish country". Everyone shops like crazy on Friday for Shabbat (which is why I try not to go near the crazy stores on Friday). Then the stores close early on Friday - The store owner also has to get home for Shabbat. On Shabbat they're closed. So by 2:00 Friday they want to be sure to be out of all vegetables. Go ahead. Make believe that you think it's wonderful. And I also think it's (not) wonderful that I can't buy milk on Motzei Shabbat.

heidi

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 4:11 pm

Shabbatiscoming, I'm with you in theory, but understand new olah in reality. When I first moved here and went to Ace and they told me that my husband could: build the shelf, hang the pictures etc. My first thought, was but my husband is Jewish. Jews can't do that stuff. And in America that flies. Here I am laughed at by my Israeli friends for hiring a handyman-- all their husbands can do it themselves.
So I understand new olah for having a hard time reconciling "cleaning help" with "frum next door neighbor"-- in America you wouldn't see that.
And just for the record I have a Sri Lankan cleaning person also-- love her!!!

Dawling

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 4:11 pm

amother wrote:

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I know a frum married American woman living in EY who LOVES to clean. Yes, she WANTS to clean toilets. Deep down, she does love it.
She's normal, too, no mental issues, LOL.
Perhaps I should introduce you two.

June

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 4:20 pm

Dawling wrote:

I actually love cleaning, and I always say that in a former life I must have been a cleaning lady. I would totally clean other houses - I'm looking for a job right now and could use the money - but I don't have enough stamina to clean all day. Also, I don't know if I'm good enough at cleaning to get paid for it.

I'm also normal, I think.

Sanguine

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 4:25 pm

About the Jewish cleaners... First of all, I would be embarrassed to have a neighbor (a friend) clean my house. Nothing to do with the actual job, but do you let all your friends go sifting through your house and through your room? A little privacy between friends. That's why. So my cleaner has to be a stranger. Not someone I socialize with.
But I knew a SAHM who wanted to send her 3 year old to gan and couldn't afford the "luxury". So she got a cleaning job one morning a week and that covered her gan problem. The cleaner was religious. The cleanee wasn't. (if that matters). What other job for four mornings a month pay for a gan. Gan was 400 shekel a month and cleaning paid 100 shekel each week (years ago)

amother

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 4:49 pm

Sanguine wrote:

Your cleaner is Sri Lankan. You think he wants to be a house cleaner in Israel?

amother

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 4:51 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Your cleaner is Sri Lankan - you think he wants to be a cleaner in Israel? And what are the chances that your Sri Lankan cleaner is a frum jew? If cleaning is such a great job, why don't you give a frum jew the parnassa.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 5:02 pm

amother wrote:

Are you the same amother? Im sorry but you cant have it both ways.
And the reason why I dont have a frum woman is because when I was looking, over 5 years ago, this is who I found. And Im not going to fire him to give someone else a job.

My plumber, electrician, house painter, children's school bus driver (just to name a few) are all jews, and most even frum jews.

Whats your point?

My point was not that we should all hire frum women, although that would be lovely. My opint was that no job in israel is beneath a frum jew. We are all (most anway) jews.

Sanguine

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 5:29 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

in israel, every job is done by jews. The garbage collectors

Our garbage men are arabs. Many jobs are done by foreign workers. We had a Jewish kablan but most the actual building was done by arabs. Foreign workers do a lot of unskilled work in this country. Even kibbutzim hire foreign workers to actually do the picking. Jews don't want to do these unskilled jobs because they pay poorly, and the foreign workers and arabs are willing to work for low wages.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 5:30 pm

Sanguine wrote:

But my point is that it is acceptable for a jew, frum or not, to be doing any job at all in israel because everone is jewish here doing all sorts of jobs. Is that better?

amother

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 5:40 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

But my point is that it is acceptable for a jew, frum or not, to be doing any job at all in israel because everone is jewish here doing all sorts of jobs. Is that better?

Even if it's acceptable for a Jew in Israel to do any job he or she wants - that doesn't mean you need to feel comfortable hiring them to clean your home. Would you hire an Arab to clean your house? Why is a Sri Lankan better than an Arab? Or a Jewish person to clean your home?

ora_43

Thu, Sep 18 2014, 5:57 pm

I think the responses to new olah amother were a bit harsh. Yes, Jews from elsewhere sometimes need to get over a certain "nice Jewish boys/girls don't do that" mentality (don't scrub toilets, don't put up their own shelves, don't work as farmers or join the army... whatever).

But it sounded to me like she was talking more about how it's emotionally easier having cleaning help from someone who runs in totally different social circles. And that I think is a decent point. Personally I don't mind having people I know see my mess, but I can see why others could view it differently.

On a different note -
since multiple posters have mentioned hiring foreign workers to clean their homes, I think it should be noted (for the sake of new olah amother and others... ) that that's usually illegal. I'm not saying that anyone on this thread is doing something illegal - chv"s, I'm sure it's all worked out and above-board. But people reading this shouldn't think you can just hire any foreign worker to clean your home. Just because someone is legally allowed to be in the country as a worker doesn't mean that you are legally allowed to employ them - you, personally, need to have permission to hire a foreign worker.

(I think a lot of people ignore the law. But sometimes there are crackdowns, and then people who get caught can get hit with big fines.)