So I got the Peach magazine at my door today

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 4:28 pm

Think1st wrote:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/07/07/60-things-that-can-go-terribly-wrong-with-hepatitis-b-vaccination.aspx

Congressman Dan burton Had a grandchiled thatstopped breathing after a Hep B shot

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/new_page_9.htm

I enjoy your attacks, bring em on, I try to show source of my claim but we must take your word

I was staying out of these threads, but, I feel a bit bated by your insults.

#1: How about a reputable journal and not some biased website.

#2: What about what I wrote above? The bacteria (Vibreo cholerea) that causes Cholera kills people in the USA every year -there was even an outbreak after Katrina as well. And, it cannot be contained by cleaning water because we cannot clean the oceans. Therefore we cannot prevent Vibreo vulnificus infections and deaths currently. There is only supportive care.

#3: Although Hep B tends to be a STD, it is contracted through any bodily fluids. For example, sharing a drink can with an infected person. Using another kids pacifier and many more. Thus, our one year old children are at risk without doing the disgusting things you referred to above.

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 4:31 pm

amother wrote:

As someone who works in vaccine development, I am beginning to get very insulted over this money thing.

So, let's clear this up once and for all. I do not love money. My co-workers do not love money. I do not poison people in order to get rich. My co-workers do not poison people to get rich. Further, I am not rich. and neither are they. Finally, I do not make a lot of money and neither do they.

Now, please stop insulting me.

If you want to debate vaccines, fine, do so. But, do so without insulting people. You want to believe they do not work. Then, do so. But, stop accusing me and my co-workers of giving people autism, seizures and mortality in children for the sake of money. I am not that pathetic.

Done vent!

Do you think that the US will be approving Bexsero for the upcoming fall semester? My brother who will be in a college dorm is trying to figure this one out. Thank you.

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 4:31 pm

amother wrote:

Just because I will be attacked by an error in wording.

#2- The infections in the USA were caused by Vibreo vulnificus not Vibreo cholerea. Subgroups of the same species.

ally

Tue, May 13 2014, 4:36 pm

amother wrote:

"Vaccinations are undoubtedly one of the greater inventions of the modern era and have saved countless lives. This blessing sometimes leads to complacency, as some individuals become immune to the phenomenon of mass outbreaks and plagues. Others fear immunizing their families because of the minimal risks associated with vaccines. In effect if not in intent, they rely upon the so-called “herd immunity” that occurs when most other people get vaccinated, thereby reducing the chance of contagion.

Public health officials have strongly countered that vaccines present minimal risks (especially relative to other health-care procedures) and that many of the sensationalistic claims linking vaccines to autism and other terrible side effects have been scientifically refuted. Furthermore, we must reserve the protections of herd immunity for those who cannot get vaccinated because of weaker immune systems. Nonetheless, certain people around the world continue to avoid vaccinations, including limited elements of ultra-Orthodox communities in America who have recently experienced tragic outbreaks of mumps and measles.

As Rabbi Asher Bush has noted, Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv argued that given the widespread contemporary medical consensus, parents are obligated to vaccinate their children, and schools or camps may exclude those who fail to take those preventive measures. Many Jewish decisors including Rabbi Yehoshua Neuwirth argued that in the absence of an outbreak or national legal mandate, schools should strongly encourage but cannot force the vaccination of children, even as their parents remain negligent, since Jewish law decidedly supports vaccination. This follows the health policies of many countries, which allow conscientious objectors to avoid vaccinations.

Be that as it may, all scholars agree that the effort to prevent the return of polio is a national mission. We must support the call of Israel’s chief rabbis who declared that Jewish law mandates all children to be vaccinated in accordance with Health Ministry regulations. ■
(Rabbi Shlomo Brody)

I have to say the interference of Rabbis in medical issues makes me uncomfortable.
Because while Rav Elyashiv might be saying to vaccinate, we have amother citing Rabbis in Lakewood who are saying not to vaccinate. And then it starts to become a religious issue and all critical thinking flies out the window.
At the end of the day, Rabbis really shouldn't be commenting on matters they are unqualified to debate.

Scrabble123

Tue, May 13 2014, 4:41 pm

ally wrote:

I'm not sure that it makes me uncomfortable. I do not like when people use Rabbis as an argument as to why to give vaccines, but Rabbis are fully able and should be able to comment on what halacha allows and encourages vaccination. They are offering halachic advise, not medical. I also feel it is important for Rabbis to be publicly open on the matter, especially today when so many people call the Orthodox anti-vaxxers in the name of Orthodox Judaism (which is obviously not true!).

Last edited by Scrabble123 on Tue, May 13 2014, 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 4:41 pm

Think1st wrote:

Congressman Burton's granddaughter stopped breathing on the same day that she received her Hep B vaccine. Causality? IT MUST BE. They thought she was fine for years. But then she was diagnosed with a seizure disorder. Could a pre-existing seizure disorder have caused her to stop breathing the day she received Hep B. OF COURSE NOT. I ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT I KNOW ITS HEP B. Well, it was years between Hep B and her diagnosis. Could it have been anything else. OF COURSE NOT. IF ANYTHING BAD HAPPENS IN THE WORLD, ITS VACCINES.

Maybe you're right. My kids were all vaccinated. DD2 didn't do well on her English test last week. Must be MMR. What else could it possibly be?

Now answer the question I posed. What is your relationship to the publisher of PEACH? Because we are all entitled to know what profit you are making by spreading your lies here.

Think1st

Tue, May 13 2014, 6:47 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

PEACH =
Purposely / Pathetically
Endangering
All
Children's
Health / Homes

BTW Think1st, are you associated with this magazine? Anyone else still have it? Can I get a copy of it?

Had I written the mag it would have been done boxing gloves off style, I enjoyed reading it & sent them nice donation.I wish they come out with another one, maybe I should help them do itso we can enlighten more of our brethren,& save more innocent lives from destruction

With all due respect to the esteemed rabonim who have ruled that you must vaccinate due to the consensus of medical professionals. It depends how you ask a question, if you would tell the rav the truth that most MD's did not study the facts, but are just parroting the CDC , & those who oppose it have done their own homework don't you think they would rule the opposite?

http://www.autismone.org/conte.....panel the full hours long hearing & many other Md's are shown on their site

Frumdoc

Tue, May 13 2014, 7:15 pm

Talk about financial gain from promoting alternative beliefs:

FDA Orders Dr. Joseph Mercola
to Stop Illegal ClaimsStephen Barrett, M.D.

Joseph Mercola, D.O., who practices in Schaumburg, Illinois, also operates one of the Internet's largest and most trafficked health information sites. In 2012, Mercola stated that his site had over 300,000 pages and is visited by "millions of people each day" and that his electronic newsletter has close 1,500,000 subscribers [1]. The site vigorously promotes and sells dietary supplements, many of which bear his name.

In 2004, Medical Economics reported that Mercola's practice employed 50 people and that he employed 15 people to run his newsletter, including three editors [2]. Much of his support comes from chiropractors who promote his newsletter from their Web sites. Two of his books hit the #2 sales rank on Amazon Books shortly after his newsletter plugged them for the first time. In 2006, according to an article in Chicago Magazine, Mercola stopped practicing medicine to focus on his Web site . I have not seen the fact that he is no longer in practice mentioned on his Web .

Mercola's Profits

Mercola is very critical of drug company profits and proudly states:

Mercola.com does NOT accept any third-party advertising or sponsorship, and I am in no way tied into any pharmaceutical company or any other corporate "interest" whatsoever. So you get the real inside scoop on health issues, with practical advice that matters to you untainted by outside influence! [1]

Mercola.com is not . . . a tool to get me a bigger house and car, or to run for Senate. I fund this site, and therefore, am not handcuffed to any advertisers, silent partners or corporate parents. . . .

Profit generated from the sale of the products I recommend goes right back into maintaining and building a better site. A site that, startling as it may be with all the greed-motivated hype out there in health care land, is truly for you [9].

The word "Mercola" on the labels of his "Dr. Mercola Premium Supplements" is service-marked. Records at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office say that he began using the mark in commerce in 2000, applied to register it in 2009, and was granted registration in 2010. The registration address is for his home in South Barrington, Illinois, which the BlockShopper Chicago Web site states has 5,083 square feet and was purchased by Mercola in 2006 for $2 million. The Bing Maps aerial view indicates that it is quite luxurious.

In 2013, Williamette Week reported that Mercola had donated a total of $26,975 in cash and in-kind contributions that included polling and a YouTube video to support the efforts of the antifluoridation group that is opposing a fluoridation referendum in Portland, Oregon. The report also stated that "Mercola has questioned whether HIV causes AIDS, suggests that many cancers can be cured by baking soda, and warns parents not to vaccinate their children. He also says that animals are psychic."

Yessir, vaccines cause autism, the FDA are out to mass murder the US public and who told him that? The animals, of course, those little voices in his head LOL

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 8:06 pm

[quote:I have to say the interference of Rabbis in medical issues makes me uncomfortable.
Because while Rav Elyashiv might be saying to vaccinate, we have amother citing Rabbis in Lakewood who are saying not to vaccinate. And then it starts to become a religious issue and all critical thinking flies out the window.
At the end of the day, Rabbis really shouldn't be commenting on matters they are unqualified to debate.]

On the contrary, it very much is a religious issue. Endangering lives, doing foolish irrational things that cause harm to oneself and others is not only one's own business, but against halacha. The above is just an excerpt of a much longer article that explains the basis for the halachic ruling. People who are anti-vaxers must know that they are acting against the Torah, let alone common decency by endangering not only their own children but others as well.
As far as other Rabbonim in Lakewood saying otherwise, I find that hard to believe. Show me- in writing- any Psak by any Rav to the contrary. Just because people on imamother say so doesn't make it true. These rabbonim are quoted out of context all the time.
However, the published psak of recognized poskim and Gedolei Hador cannot be ignored.

b.chadash

Tue, May 13 2014, 8:19 pm

"With all due respect to the esteemed rabonim who have ruled that you must vaccinate due to the consensus of medical professionals. It depends how you ask a question, if you would tell the rav the truth that most MD's did not study the facts, but are just parroting the CDC , & those who oppose it have done their own homework don't you think they would rule the opposite? "

This comment shows extreme arrogance as well as a complete lack of understanding on how the gedolim pasken. You think Rav Elyashiv's public psak was based on a person's question?? You think you somehow uncovered the truth while Rav Elyashiv was hoodwinked by "the professionals"? Rav Shlomo Zalman, with his encyclopedic scientific mind, was somehow taken in by the fraud while you saw through the ruse?? Rolling Eyes

ally

Wed, May 14 2014, 2:19 am

amother wrote:

Firstly, it isn't going to make a difference. Those who are vehemently anti-vax and buy into the conspiracy theories, will just assume the Rabbanim are basing their psak on "faulty science" and it is therefore invalid. As has already been demonstrated in this thread.

More importantly, by turning a medical issue into a religious one, you lose any potential for rational debate because either side will just cite "Daas Torah". Moreover, you create a situation where Rabbanim are deciding matters which are outside of their area of expertise and sometimes jurisdiction.

As for the Lakewood issue,
http://www.hakirah.org/Vol13Bush.pdf
Have a read of the letter in the footnote 57 and let me know if their words are being misconstrued.

chaiz

Wed, May 14 2014, 3:59 am

ally wrote:

More importantly, by turning a medical issue into a religious one, you lose any potential for rational debate because either side will just cite "Daas Torah". Moreover, you create a situation where Rabbanim are deciding matters which are outside of their area of expertise and sometimes jurisdiction.

As for the Lakewood issue,
http://www.hakirah.org/Vol13Bush.pdf
Have a read of the letter in the footnote 57 and let me know if their words are being misconstrued.

Rabbanim pasken on medical issues all the time and there is no problem with that. Most good doctors have respect for that and the better ones have good relationships with rabbanim. Generally, Torah does respect what medical science has to say. Not that we take it as toras Moshe, but it is generally accepted that to listen to doctors and base psak on what doctors have to say. The key is that you have to go to a rav who has a good relationship with doctors and who understands the medical issues. Not all rabbanim do that and honest ones will tell you go to this or that rav as he knows the area. I am honestly not sure that some of the rabbanim quoted here have really done their homework. Rav Elyashiv and Rav Auerbach I do trust have done their homework. But some others have a reputation for not doing their homework so there I do not trust a word they have to say. I want names of rabbanim who know what they are talking about and have done their homework and then we can talk.