So I got the Peach magazine at my door today

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amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 10:35 am

I reported your post. "Yimach shmo" is what we use for Hitler and Stalin. Casually tossing it around on a Jewish website is beyond despicable.

My baby had whooping cough. She got it from the kids of people in your Salon article, who don't vax as a trend. (When I took her to the doctor I was actually asked if we live in one of the places mentioned in the article.) Ladies, trust me when I say that you haven't really davened until you've watched your child unable to catch a breath.

I can't wait for the day that Imamother catch's up to Dans Deals and bans you for trolling. (Hint to those following along on Google: Only one other Internet handle uses the phrase "vaxiquack.")

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 10:37 am

Think1st wrote:

So on top of 613 Mitzvot you add thou shalt vaccinate, maybe the 11th commandment

Actually CDC director Dr. Thomas R. Frieden yimach shemo lead the fraudulent claims against brit milah in NYC,

See what Rav Belsky says

“I asked Frieden if it’s true that 80 percent of mohalim have antibodies for herpes and 80 percent of them do metzitzah b’peh. He said yes. I said, ‘According to your statistics, there should be at least 500 cases of herpes. How come there isn’t even one [aside from a previously documented case]? It shows that your statistics are flawed!’ The theories are not developed. They don’t prove anything. So Frieden changed the topic and started talking about something else. He had no response.” - See more at:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com......dpuf

CDC statistics are fabricated to further their agenda, play with the numbers like that in the financial world they lock you up & lose the key

He doesn't oppose brit milah. He opposes metzitzah b'peh. Big difference.

Pray tell, how do you think that these babies are getting gential HSV infections within the first couple of weeks of their lives?

The article you cite, of course, demonstrates a complete and utter lack of understanding of the transmission of HSV-1. The HSV-1 virus remains in the body, but is usually dormant. It cannot be transmitted in its dormant state. The problem, of course, is that it can be active even without the appearance of cold sores (that's what HSV-1 is), so that it can be unknowingly transmitted by a mohel performing metzitza b'peh.

So ... the vast majority of time, an infected mohel will not transmit HSV-1 when doing metzitza b'peh. So the numbers in the article you cite are a bunch of hooey. Problem -- we don't know when he's OK, and when he's not. And when he's not OK, he can (but will not necessarily) transmit a disease that can kill babies.

Quote:

Abstract: Asymptomatic Shedding of Herpes Simplex Virus (HSV) in the Oral Cavity
Howard E. Strassler, DMD

Jan. 27, 2009
Inside Dentistry

Miller CS, Danaher RT. Oral Surg Oral Med Oral Pathol Oral Radiol Endod. 2008;105(1):43-50.

Objective: The aim of this study was to investigate the rate of herpes simplex virus (HSV) shedding from the oral cavity, because recent studies suggest that shedding is more frequent than originally reported. Factors that could influence the rate and duration of shedding from the oral cavity were examined.

Methods: Existing epidemiologic data from 22 reports of HSV shedding from more than 3,500 individuals were analyzed with regard to demographics, frequency of sampling, and methodologic assays.

Results: HSV-1 was more likely to be detected than HSV-2 in the oral cavity of asymptomatic persons (7.5 odds ratio, 95% confidence interval 4.4–12.8; P < .0001). The rate of shedding was highly variable among individuals, ranging from none to 92% of the days tested, and occurred in seropositive and seronegative individuals. In cell culture studies, the rate of detection on a single day was 6.3%. Polymerase chain reaction studies provided a different picture. HSV-1 DNA was present in 97 of 180 patients (53.9%) at multiple visits, with a rate of daily detection of 33.3%. The mean duration of shedding was between 1 and 3 days, but more than 3 days in about 10% of the patients.

Conclusion: At least 70% of the population shed HSV-1 asymptomatically at least once a month, and many individuals appear to shed HSV-1 more than six times a month. Shedding HSV-1 is present at many intraoral sites, for brief periods, at copy numbers sufficient to be transmitted, and even in seronegative individuals. The dental implications of these findings are discussed.

Herpes simplex virus (HSV) is a significant human pathogen infecting most individuals early in life, predominantly at mucosal surfaces after exposure to infected secretions. It has been implicated in a range of diseases including labials and stomatitis, blinding keratitis, and, rarely, encephalitis. According to the data, more than 70% of adults have neutralizing antibodies and serve as reservoirs of the virus. The authors have done an excellent systematic review of the rate of shedding of HSV from the oral cavity. Asymptomatic shedding is generally defined as the presence of HSV in the absence of clinical lesions. Based on this review, the frequency of HSV shedding at virus numbers sufficient to be transmitted are significantly higher than most clinicians would suspect. These high frequencies of asymptomatic shedding suggest that HSV-1 is not as dormant during latency as previously believed. This translates to the fact that even without clinical lesions, the dentist, dental hygienist, and chairside assistant are at risk. This data emphasize the importance of being diligent in maintaining proper infection control procedures (eye protection, gloves, mask) when performing routine dental examinations and procedures. All efforts should be taken to minimize splashes and splatters of oral fluids even in the absence of HSV oral lesions. Also, medical conditions, eg, immunosuppression and traumatic oral surgical procedures, increase the likelihood of virus shedding in the oral cavity.

Howard E. Strassler, DMD
Professor and Director of Operative Dentistry
Department of Endodontics, Prosthodontics and Operative Dentistry
University of Maryland Dental School
Baltimore, Maryland

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 10:53 am

I just want to point out that almost always when I post something, whether as amother or under my screen name, Think1st NEVER responds to it. She just picks random messages to use and troll her ideas, often changing the subject. Why did this thread become another vaccine debating one? Wasn't the other thread locked? Move on.

Scrabble123

Tue, May 13 2014, 10:58 am

Last night I watched some YouTube videos of a mother who calls herself "natural mama." She explains some basic information on each vaccine and then says if she will be giving the vaccine or not.

At the end of almost all of the videos she said "if I choose to travel internationally, I will give my child this vaccine." She made numerous remarks that because her child is home and not in daycare she will not give certain vaccines. She even had the audacity to state that since Polio & MMR are so rare in the United States thanks to the vaccines (Yes, she said that), that she will opt out to receive them.

Is anyone else outraged by this?

I do not want to steal the thread, but I figure Think1st has already done it, so why not share my frustration right now.

Are there any anti-vaxxers like this? You won't vaccinate because it's safe in the US thanks to those of us who vax, but then when you go to a foreign country will vax to protect yourself and your children. Do you really think that this way of living life makes sense at all? Do you feel that is ethical?

Think1st

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:12 am

amother wrote:

And it seems like this is only the first issue of many? And that it will cost $5? And it will also be distributed in Israel?

Someone spent a lot of money on this and I'm sure one of the people part of the publishing are online here. So please enlighten me, what is this all about?

All I read were a bunch of horror stories. Please do not put this junk at my door again, I cannot handle these stories. I make an informed decision when I do or don't give shots (I believe in delayed schedule) and printing horror stories just shows that you need to resort to reactionary measures to convince people of your stance, besides for hurting my heart and making me hate you. Also, your argument has credence , however you lost your credibility by printing lies and hysteria instead of facts. (who designed your ridiculous cartoons?)

(anon cuz I don't want to reveal location)

Dr Sears published this delayed schedule & a response to Dr Offit 's attack on him, Offit who made 10,s of millions from the retrovirus vaccine he co-developed & voted into schedule .Offit writes 10,000vaccines per day is ok , let him bend over Very Happy

http://www.askdrsears.com/topi.....cines

http://pediatrics.aappublicati.....ac33b

http://pediatrics.aappublicati.....f5036

I delay vaccines until they can do no harm @age 120 Smile

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:15 am

Scrabble123 wrote:

Someone on a spin-off thread (I do not 100% remember the user name and I don't want to guess) said that she doesn't vax largely because she can rely on the fact that other people are vaxing.

That's right, frum mothers: Other frum mothers are letting YOUR children take on the (perceived) risk of mercury poisoning and autism spectrum disorders in order to protect THEIR neshamas.

This whole thing is disgusting. In 1848, cholera broke out in Vilna erev Yom Kippur. The Vilna Gaon pasked that nobody should fast that year in a preemptive attempt to strengthen themselves against the coming plague. Realizing that people may disobey his pesak (due to the severe issur of eating on Yom Kippur) the Vilna Gaon stood on his amud, made kiddush, drank wine and ate cake *on Yom Kippur* in order to stress his point. I would love to hear how the Rebbeim who are supposedly anti-vax think that they are on a madreiga where they can out-pasken the Vilna Gaon. Yeridos ha'doros, indeed.

(Amother whose baby got whooping cough from the Salon mothers that Think1st wants us to emulate.)

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:20 am

Think1st wrote:

http://www.askdrsears.com/topi.....cines

http://pediatrics.aappublicati.....ac33b

http://pediatrics.aappublicati.....f5036

I delay vaccines until they can do no harm @age 120 Smile

Do you mean rotavirus? You are aware that these antivaxxers are just as much in the moneymaking game as you claim the vaxxers are. Just calm down and do your thing if you are so confident in your choices and stop with insults and name calling.

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:22 am

there was a measles outbreak in Lakewood last year and even though I do vax, my youngest had not yet received his vaccine. guess who got the measles?! my youngest (who was a preemie and did not need to deal w/ measles). it was very scary! b'h his case wasn't too severe, but that is not the point.
please let's keep every child safe and give the vaccines!
btw- can someone explain what a delayed schedule is and what's the benefits? I've never heard of it before.
anon bec my family members on here know about all of this, and I don't want to out my sn

MrsDash

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:23 am

I guess 32 pages wasn't enough for some people Confused

Frumdoc

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:27 am

Scrabble123 wrote:

Maybe they can only get female doctors, so they know they can't rely on their opinions Wink

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:29 am

Think1st wrote:

http://www.askdrsears.com/topi.....cines

http://pediatrics.aappublicati.....ac33b

http://pediatrics.aappublicati.....f5036

I delay vaccines until they can do no harm @age 120 Smile

Sears, of course, is in the business of selling books. I fail to understand why his profit motive should be considered pure, but everyone else's is suspect. In any case, his response to Dr. Offrit's criticism is interesting:

Quote:

I will admit that the book does offer one major controversial idea; my alternative vaccine schedule. However, it is important to note the context in which I offer that advice. At the end of the book, I encourage parents to vaccinate their children according to the CDC schedule if they feel confident in our nation’s vaccine system. For those parents who, after reading all the reasons why vaccines are important in my book, still believe vaccines aren’t safe and plan to not vaccinate, I at least ask them to consider getting the most important infant vaccines so their babies have protection from the life-threatening illnesses (HIB, PC, DTaP, and Rota). Where my alternative schedule comes into play is for those parents who are still unsure about vaccines, but they do want to fully vaccinate. I offer them an optional schedule that gets their child fully vaccinated, but at a slower pace. It doesn’t delay any of the most important shots, but it slightly delays some shots that are for lower-risk diseases. This option is really for parents who would otherwise leave a doctor’s office unvaccinated – parents who are too torn to make a decision, and therefore often don’t make any decision to vaccinate at all.

Interesting that Sears agrees that the vaccine developed by Dr. Offrit should be given.

Sears goes on to concede that his concerns about any link between MMR and intestinal inflammation are "probably unfounded."

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:31 am

amother wrote:

Why would they distribute Peach magazine if the above bolded statement is true?
Wouldn't they try to keep the numbers lower to protect their kids.... you can't have it both ways!

citimom

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:33 am

And with all this talk, I have yet to meet a dr. (Pediatrician or otherwise) who has not vaccinated their own children...

vintagebknyc

Tue, May 13 2014, 11:35 am

if you acknowledge the troll person exists, you hand over power. pretend the posts are not there. I also do this with some other particular users. it makes life easier when you've able to easily avoid the crazy

Think1st

Tue, May 13 2014, 12:10 pm

citimom wrote:

And with all this talk, I have yet to meet a dr. (Pediatrician or otherwise) who has not vaccinated their own children...

If you don't look how do you want to see ? Very Happy

even Bina Mag (under supervision of Dr Schulman from Bork Park) , had an article around Yom Kipur where 1 frum MD says she skips many vaccines fro her patients & own children Hep B etc,

Do a search for holistic md , find licensed MD's who are not push vaccines

Rivals Sears & Ofit agree that Vaccine ingredients, safety & efficacy studies or NOT part of Med school curriculum, So Md relies on CDC blindly,town is scared of mayor who fears his wife, who shivers from a mouse = We all are scared of a mouse

Pro-vaxers claim anti-vaxers 'selfishly' rely on herd immunity, then why are they trying to increase the % of anti-vaxers.

Is common sense out the window ?

Where is the outcry about selfish abuse of anti biotic creating super-bugs ?

Last edited by Think1st on Tue, May 13 2014, 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

sky

Tue, May 13 2014, 12:34 pm

From a USA today article published today regarding a measles outbreak:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/.....1175/

The article also mentioned that cases are high in California. Which is an area that @Think1st said is a low vaccination rate. I wonder why the cases are higher there?

Quote:

The Ohio outbreak, like ongoing outbreaks in California and elsewhere, has been linked to unvaccinated travelers bringing the measles virus back from countries where the disease remains common. In Ohio, all of the cases have been among the Amish, health officials say. The outbreak began after Amish missionaries returned from the Philippines. The Philippines is experiencing a large, ongoing measles outbreak with more than 26,000 cases reported, according to CDC.

Quote:

The California outbreak, also linked to the Philippines, had reached 59 cases as of Friday, according to the California Department of Public Health.

from a different article on measles http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?id=9521411:

Quote:

Out of 129 nationwide cases so far this year, 58 are in California. Ten of those are in Los Angeles County, and 22 are in Orange County.
...
Last week, Long Beach public health officials reported 42 confirmed cases of whooping cough (pertussis). By comparison, last year there were 12 cases.

Quote:

And from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/......html
A shocking 49 measles cases have been reported in California to date in 2014, up from only four at this same time last year.

It doesn't look like not vaccinating in California is working so well. In fact it looks like this is proof that vaccinating does work.

Back to today's USA today article.

Quote:

" The center of the Ohio outbreak is Knox County, where 40 cases have been reported. Thousands of Amish in Knox and surrounding areas have lined up to be vaccinated, says Pam Palm, spokeswoman for the county health department. Though the Amish traditionally have low vaccination rates, "they have been very receptive to coming in and getting immunized," to stem the outbreak, Palm says."

Quote:

Some of the unvaccinated missionaries told local health officials they would have been vaccinated for measles before going to the Philippines if they had been told there was an outbreak there, Palm says: "One guy we spoke to feels just terrible that he brought the measles back and exposed his family."

an article like this should have been included in the Peach magazine if you are giving an honest and balanced view.

And I noticed that once people are at risk they run to vaccinate.

In Syria and other countries with children refugees that have stopped vaccinating Polio has made a come back. Not vaccinating isn't working for them too well either.

If you can prove to me that areas with lower vaccination rates have less outbreaks then that would help a lot.

wifenmother

Tue, May 13 2014, 12:51 pm

ElTam wrote:

Fear shuts down the ability to think rationally. When ever anyone resorts to fear tactics, my first instinct is to think, "What are you hiding?"

But isn't it because of fear of disease that you are vaccinating your children in the first place? The Peach magazine included all of the references in the back; this was based on independent research not baseless fear or swallowing everything the CDC wants to shove down your throat.

Disclaimer: I vaccinate as well but have become aware of some serious reactions to vaccines people I know have experienced in recent years and am in limbo ever since. My two year old is therefore way behind schedule...

Think1st

Tue, May 13 2014, 12:55 pm

amother wrote:

Cholera where is it today ? wow gone without a vaccine Rolling Eyes

Vilna goan Paskend when there is real pikuach nefesh eat on yom kipur, did he ever take medication or see a Doctor ? NO

http://ehealthforum.com/blogs/......html

Igros Moshe also says rather eat on Yom Kipur than a simple medical intervention as installing IV a day before ,Any medical procedure can have side effects MD is not aware of

Anyone MD or not who did their homework knows, that vaccine are the prime cause of Autism Asthma Cancer Infertility, section 13 on most vaccine inserts

http://vactruth.com/vaccine-inserts/

To Anon, please teach me how can I make $ as an anti vaxer LOL

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 1:23 pm

Think1st wrote:

Cholera where is it today ? wow gone without a vaccine Rolling Eyes

Yeah, gone because we can flush toilets.

I am starting a spin-off thread requesting a ban.

sequoia

Tue, May 13 2014, 1:24 pm

Cholera isn't gone. There are deadly outbreaks in many third-world countries, and less deadly but still very unpleasant outbreaks even in normal countries. For instance there's cholera in Ukraine during the summer. You have to be very careful about not drinking the water.

Your other assertions are absurd and, conveniently, unfalsifiable. Complex phenomena are too scary for some people; they want to attribute all evils to one cause.

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