Peach Magazine - Don't force your ideas on everyone else

ally

Fri, May 02 2014, 3:58 am

amother wrote:

I have not read the magazine, so I cannot make a judgement on it.
A poster wrote that it mentions vaccine inserts. That is education. Many people are unaware that this exists, let alone what it says.
However, even if the magazine is a bunch of propaganda, I think it is an important (albeit perhaps misguided) first step towards informing the public of another side.

Propaganda is never a good way to inform the other side. The fact that you can think so, just shows how little regard you have for analytical thinking and the ability of people to be convinced by the actual scientific validity of your arguments rather than via scare tactics.

As for the insert, I don't even know what to say to this. Every medication comes with an insert. Reading it is meaningless if it is not accompanied by at least an elementary understanding of the difference between clinically found and self-reported incidences as well as a little knowledge of statistics. You know, we could start writing medical inserts for every item we purchase

"Excessive use of this item may result in back, neck and leg pain. If user experiences dizziness or tiredness, should cease use immediately. Usage of this item has been responsible for major trauma, spinal injury, paralysis and death (with a statistical risk higher than that of vaccines)."

This is a car.

Or this (from http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html)

Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:

Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
Contributes to soil erosion.
Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.

Aylat

Fri, May 02 2014, 4:09 am

ally wrote:

Love it!!

For those who don't get it: dihydrogen monoxide is H2O ie water.

mommy3b2c

Fri, May 02 2014, 7:42 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

Ummm, so do I "top" you because I have a B.S., M.S. and Ph.D.? A B.S. from a good university? They are just letters that cannot not disqualify a mother's feelings

I was just pointing out that I am not uneducated and therefore unable to review something critically, which was implied about many women who are reading the magazine.

BTW, it does cite many article and studies. You can choose to believe the CDC and WHO which suppressed certain information. You can choose to believe studies that were funded by pharmaceutical companies. You can also choose to ignore the statistics that show that the higher the rate of vaccination in a country, the higher the rate of autism. Etc. Your choice.

A very telling point was this. Let's say more cases of autism, ADHD, Asperger's etc are being diagnosed than in the past. If there was no rise in the incidence, merely in the diagnosis, you'd expect to find older people being diagnosed as well. But no, that does not happen. Ever wonder why?

I have not read the magazine but will point out a simple fact. In third world countries, peoples are to busy watching their children die of diseases that could have been prevented by vaccinations, to worry about or recognize autism. Do you think these people are educated enough to think their child is a bit socially awkward, perhaps they have aspergers, etc....? Just because less children are diagnosed with autism, desnt mean less children have it. In developed countries, autism is an issue we focuson, so it gets diagnosed. In third world countries, half the people cant get to a dr. How do you excpect them to get diagnosed? The direct correlation between vaccines and diagnosed cases of autism makes perfect sense. We are more medically advanced, therefore, we vaccinate and have the means to properly diagnose children with autism.

amother

Fri, May 02 2014, 9:44 am

5*Mom wrote:

Rate of vaccination is not the only variable in a comparison between the developed world and the developing world. Just sayin'.

You are totally right, but the data ultimately translates to this: The two primary causes of childhood mortality there is little to do about. Increasing medical care world wide and children seen by medical professionals faster can do a little for it.

The next biggest cause of death would shrink significantly if the world was vaccinated for rotavirus. The overwhelming majority of diarrheal death (~98%) is in developing countries where vaccination for Rotavirus is nil. If we had a vaccine for E. coli, Shigella and Crypto, diarrheal deaths would be insignificant compared to anything other cause of childhood mortality (like AIDS which accounts for 7% of childhood deaths worldwide.)

amother

Fri, May 02 2014, 10:10 am

just got the magazine this morning...Wondering if these same pple that don't vaccinate give their kids foods with food coloring? there are chemicals in that too. Pareve milk, whip...all these things are also made with chemical. Why don't they put out a magazine about what healthy foods kids should eat. Supposedly ADD and ADHD etc, all come from too much sugar and food coloring etc. Also theres a lot more pollution than years ago in the air, which is probably another reason for all these things. All of us that got our shots 20 to 30 years ago have less allergies and things than todays children, so I wouldn't blame it on vaccines. I think its the overall environment.

They also say that childhood cancer is much more than it used to be. Cancer in general is much more than it used to be. On the other hand all the diseases that used to be killers like polio, whooping cough etc are no longer around....is it better to have these diseases around too?

black sheep

Fri, May 02 2014, 12:54 pm

the study that showed a link between vaccinations and autism has been debunked. it was proven that the author of that work fabricated results. the whole study was based on false information.

in fact, there never was any proof at all about the connection between autism and vaccinations. all the evidence was corollary evidence based on parents observations. at about one years old, when babies receive the MMR vaccine, many parents also started noticing that their babies were showing very early signs of autism. two problems with this are that 1. this is when the signs of autism would have started showing with or without the vaccine, so it is only corrolary evidence, and 2. much of this "evidence" was fabricated for the author of this study to prove his point.

See this article from CNN about the fabricated study:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH.....ines/

The most important paragraph from the article is this: "An investigation published by the British medical journal BMJ concludes the study's author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 of the patients whose cases formed the basis of the 1998 study -- and that there was "no doubt" Wakefield was responsible."

I don't think vaccines are perfect. There are chemicals which certainly are not natural, and the fact is you are introducing viruses to your baby, who then has to develop the immunity to the virus. Many babies get temporarily ill after vaccines. But, I think any baby that is sensitive to the vaccine would be so much more sensitive to the illness itself! Those might be the babies that need the vaccines the most! And a temporary fever or sleepless night, while not ideal, is certainly better than the measles or polio. And no baby got autism from a vaccine.

I also think that autism isn't any more prevalent these days than it used to be. I just think people with autism and aspergers went undiagnosed, and were taunted and struggles to cope. Now we have the tools to diagnose and address these issues. I know quite a few older adults who no doubt have some kind of social disorder, probably aspergers, but no one was evaluated for it back then. These days, the slightest hint at either awkwardness or hyperactivity gets attention, back then it just got laughed at.

And most of all, I do not understand what the anti-vaxer campaign is all about. Would these people prefer having the diseases back? Or is government and large company conspiracy theories so scary that it takes over all rational reason?

amother

Sat, May 03 2014, 11:45 pm

I want to point out that the authors of the magazine did include their names, as well as their objectives. The pamphlet was put out l'zecher nishmas a baby that died of SIDS a few days after receiving her DTap shot. It defensively came from a point of pain with people who believed what they were doing was to help the public....
I do vaccinate my children, and although I consider myself an educated parent (I work in pediatric health care) I did find some interning points to ponder. Why are we vaccinating our babies against hep b when there is almost a zero possibility of them contracting the disease?
One thing that did bother me tremendously was that most of their references quoted were from the 1990s... And their references were not very solid to begin with...

5*Mom

Sun, May 04 2014, 1:56 am

amother wrote:

You can't properly translate data with multiple variables, such as access to potable water, hygiene practices... Risk profiles differ widely between developed/developing countries.You can't draw conclusions for health protocol in the US based on data from third world countries.

allrgymama

Sun, May 04 2014, 3:21 am

amother wrote:

One interesting point that I read in the magazine and I am curious to ask my doctor about is that they wrote that every shot comes with a warning and if you don't ask the doctors don't show it to you. In curious if that's true and all the risks of the shot is written in the warning label. Does anyone know if this is true?

I live in LKWD and use Chemed for myself and my husband; we started off at Chemed for my children and switched to Dr. Indich. At both offices, whether vaccines/shots for myself or my children, I have ALWAYS been given a piece of paper explaining what was being given and what the risks were and (just as importantly), I *read* it.

And I still vaccinate.

Allfromabove

Mon, May 05 2014, 12:39 pm

If vaccine benefits outweigh their risks we need to give them, but also vice versa.

A few years ago when our daughter was born a family member told us to look into vaccine safety.
And we did.

It took months and months, but at the end of our investigation we concluded we would not vaccinate our children at all, as the risks far far outweigh the possible benefits.

This was a conclusion that we came to only after hours and hours (and hours and hours!!!) of truly looking into vaccine effectiveness.

without all those hours our opinion on the matter would be no different than the way it was before our investigation.

aside from all the information they wrote there, they wrote openly we should look into it ourselves and not just be trusting of what we are used to or what we are told. the problem with that is it really isn't easy, but we have done it, and we have arrived at the conclusion we did.

After what we have done I wouldn't recommend anyone to simply go badmouthing anti-vax people until they have truly looked into vaccine effectiveness on their own, never mind all the vaccine risks the magazine discusses.

my own experience makes me hopeful more of us will do our homework instead of merely talking from previous understanding .

During those difficult months when we didn't know what to do this interview really gave us a boost-
he was a regular pro-vax doctor for 20 years before he switched to anti-vax and he says why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh4bGWvFcsE

People who see this interview will have more educated opinions on the matter :-)

MaBelleVie

Mon, May 05 2014, 1:21 pm

Think1st wrote:

http://www.google.com/search?q=google&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#as_qdr=all&channel=sb&q=poul+thorsen+most+wanted&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&safe=active

Link to 3 government websites showing MD who did 21 studies for the CDC to "prove" vaccines don't cause Autism

He pocketed the money, fabricated the study. & if they find him he gets over 100 years in jail

I'm a little slow. Which government site says he fabricated studies?

Think1st

Mon, May 05 2014, 1:30 pm

amother wrote:

I like in Lakewood and was outraged to find a magazine on my doorstep called "peach magazine". It was a glossy, approx. 24 page magazine sprouting the dangers of vaccinating children.

I only read 2 pages before I tossed it in the garbage where it belongs. If you feel that you don't want to vaccinate your child, go right ahead. I'm ok with that. What I am not OK with is publishing a full magazine with horror stories of people who killed their children by allowing them get shots.

My MIL, who is in her 70's, well remembers the classmates of hers who got polio. Some came back to school in metal braces, some never came back. When her children were born she pleaded with the nurses in the hospital to vaccinate her children immediately and not make her wait the required 3 months.

http://vaxtruth.org/2012/03/th.....-2-2/ debunking polio myth

I remember reading that Dr. shanik said he has children in his practice who cannot father children due to getting the measles and being unvaccinated.

And you believed him without any proof ?

My husband & sibling were NOT vaccinated due to advise of MD they had mumps chickenpox etc. all perfectly healthy No fertility issues

My family all fully vaccinated with nice dose of tylenol before & after as per MD, every 3rd child had serious fertility issues

Actually on most vaccine inserts there is a warning it can cause cancer & infertility

Were we better off 75 years ago?

in 75 years What happend to the percentage rate of Autism ADD ADHD Asthma Arthritis (juvnile ) thats only A. Cancer & infertility organizations are overwhelmed

The only way you can get away with not vaccinating your children is because the rest of us do. The 'herd mentality' is protecting you . Why is this garbage appearing on every doorstep? I'm assuming, your ideal situation is that none of tens of thousands of children in Lakewood should be vaccinated. Do we really want measles, mumps and other deadly epidemics to catch on like wildfire?

That is all based on the myth that vaccines saved us

Keep your opinions to yourself.

[b]Why cant you keep your opinions to yourself[/b]

Think1st

Mon, May 05 2014, 1:38 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I'm a little slow. Which government site says he fabricated studies?

if he used the $ for house car motorcycle etc, where did he have $ to do a real study ????

http://oversight.house.gov/wp-.....m.pdf
read page 50 of this congressional hearing

Mr. POSEY (Congresman we vote for them )
. My time is very limited here. So, clearly, definitely,
unequivocally you have studied vaccinated versus unvaccinated?
Ms. BOYLE (CDC unelected )
. We have not studied vaccinated versus unvaccinated.
Mr. POSEY. Okay. Never mind, so just stop there. That was the
meaning of my question. You wasted 2 minutes of my time.
What steps has the CDC undertaken to ensure the integrity of
the research that was performed by Dr. Thorson, who, as you
know, has been indicted for misconduct and misallocation of re-
sources?
Ms. BOYLE. So Dr. Thorson, who was a co-investigator on a cou-
ple of studies that came out on autism, was really just one investi-
gator. And that body of evidence related to vaccines and autism.

Mr. POSEY. Have you gone back to validate the variety of studies
he participated in? I mean, you know this guy is a humongous
scumbag, one of the most wanted men on earth, and you relied
upon him for data to determine whether thimerosal had a negative
effect.

Last edited by Think1st on Mon, May 05 2014, 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

Chayalle

Mon, May 05 2014, 1:39 pm

UQT wrote:

Does anyone here agree with this statement:

"We were far better off 50 + years ago before vaccinations were developed. The diseases that were around then were not as bad as the potential side effects our children could get from getting vaccinated."

I can't believe anyone would say yes.

This.

When I was little, my grandfather told me what it was like when small pox came to his town. His grandfather, twin brothers, younger brother, and baby sister died within hours. Loads of kids he had known disappeared forever. Two years later, what was left of his family emigrated to the U.S. where some vaccinations were available, and kids were expected to live to adulthood.

I guess because I grew up with this message, I always notice when reading biographies and accounts of famlies from long ago, how many families lost children in infancy or early childhood. It's not uncommon to hear that they had many young children but only one or two made it...it makes me realize the gift we have today, most families expect to marry off the children they birth.

To the poster who wrote that her children had fever after the vax...and then what? Were there any lifelong compications? I remember several of my siblings had some fever after vaccinations, and my mother gave them some tylenol...and they are fine today. None of my children had any adverse reactions, as improvements in the vaccines have lead to less side effects today.

Chayalle

Mon, May 05 2014, 1:44 pm

amother wrote:

Why are you so upset? You have every right not to read it and the publisher has every right to publish and distribute it. Free country after all. And btw I'm pro vaccines...

Maybe legally they can distribute what they want...but from a frum perspective I question this.

I remember a couple of years ago a local free paper had a beautiful article about babies in the womb, complete with pictures of babies in utero. Shortly after, a phone message went around warning parents of the graphic photos, with apologies from the editors, etc....

So obviously, there were strong feelings by some about distributing info to people's homes that their children might get to before parental approval.

Well, I object to the message of PEACH, which my teens got to before I got to toss it in the trash. Why was there no apology call going around, warning me to get rid of junk that was stuck into my home without my permission?