When to potch? | Imamother

groisamomma

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:09 pm

OP, I liked and agreed with a lot of your long post earlier on this page. Dh once told me that it says (I forget where) that if someone is going to discipline their child, they should not make the child wait. Something about the child literally dying from fright. I'll double check where he brought that from, but the point was to do it quickly and effectively so that the child doesn't have extra time to be scared.

That being said, I will repeat that I agree with almost everything you wrote in this thread, and particularly the responses you wrote to starmarket and others.

Most people with judgemental views either have kids too young to really discipline yet or unfortunately those over the hill that raised problem children.

You are doing a great job. That means you are doing the best you can and it sounds like your kids are very lucky to have a mommy that cares so much about doing what's right for them. We all make mistakes in parenting and pretending not to is lying.

groisamomma

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:11 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I understand why you found it effective, but it's not something I would do. A toddler doesn't have the ability to understand everything that you explained to your five year old re love in the moment of the potch.

I see it as 100% a parent's responsibility to ensure a toddler's safety at all times, whatever that takes. I don't believe in putting any responsibility on a toddler for ensuring her own safety, which is what you're hoping to accomplish with the potch.

So you don't ever tell your toddler "Careful, hot!" when you are taking something out of the oven?

allrgymama

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:12 pm

@gold21: I COMPLETELY agree that it is a parent's responsibility to ensure their child's safety. Potching is one of the ways that I ensure my child's safety. My children are the only children on the block who are never without a grown up outside with them and I will not go inside for even a minute without specifically asking another grown up to accept responsibility for watching them while I'm gone -- whereas there are parents on my block who either let their children out unsupervised or assume that another grown up outside will 'keep an eye'.

Also, I think people should be aware that 'potch' means different things to different people. If I say it's a 'light slap' does that make it easier to imagine? It's not like I'm 'whacking' them. I know someone who, when she potches her children, leaves red blotches. I have NEVER potched a child anywhere close to that hard.

@sneakermom: I am sorry for your experience. I have my own complicated experience that has resulted in me trying to be a conscious parent-er. I don't like to ever do anything without thinking about it first or to react in a moment. Again, I think that it allows my child a measure of control, you think it's more controlling. I think that says that we've had two VERY different upbringings to see the same thing in such different ways. There have been other times where my child did something wrong and I asked her what an acceptable punishment was and we went with what she decided; I also think that it makes them slightly less...maybe 'resentful' or 'self-pitying' is the word, since they chose the punishment.

@MaBelleVie: It is hard to argue this because she's two and a half; while she's very verbal, I can't quite sit down and have as a specific conversation about my motivations with her the same way that I can with my five year. But my intention is to teach her that there are consequences for her actions -- but I think that if we say that she's not old enough for that, then she also isn't old enough to take away a lesson that she's ultimately responsible for her safety.

Although, that is an interesting discussion. I certainly tell her that if she's not careful when she's running that she's going to fall and hurt herself. If she falls and I wasn't close enough to catch her, is that my fault because I'm 'responsible for her safety'? If I tell her not to jump on the bed and she doesn't listen and falls off is it my fault because I'm 'responsible for her safety'? I should make this a different thread -- but in the context of potching, in what situations or at what ages DOES a child become responsible and then have to deal with the consequences of their actions?

groisamomma

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:33 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Of course I educate my toddlers... Did you read my explanation of why I don't potch them?

I skimmed, not read. The sentence I bolded caught my eye because I understood it to mean that if it's a parent's responsibility to maintain the welfare of the child then kids don't have to be taught about keeping themselves safe. I was wondering at which point they begin to transition to the stage where you caution them and teach them about making safe choices.

I will go back and read (not skim) this time.

starmarket

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:37 pm

groisamomma wrote:

Just to clarify - mine range from toddler to nine - we don't fit in either of those categories (too young to discipline or over the hill with problem children). I just think that there are better ways to teach than hitting. My bottom line - however - is that I think that it's good for us as parents to question our choices/actions - and make sure we'd want to be treated that way if the
roles were reversed - and only we can know those answers (because only we know the whole picture of what goes on in our homes). I personally like when someone makes me question what I am doing - even if I totally disagree - it either makes me feel more sure about my choices or helps me down a better path.

allrgymama

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:42 pm

@MaBelleVie: I understand what you're saying, but that's precisely why I DO potch, because (again) they understand the immediate cause and effect in that situation (I stepped into the gutter, so Mommy potched me. I don't like potches, so I won't step into the street), even if they don't understand the why (they can't go into the street). Perhaps you think that a toddler doesn't understand that, but this particular child does. It was very effective last summer and all this year; as she got older, I was able to segue into a much calmer, you can't go into the street without holding a grown up's hand (whereas last year, I didn't even let her feet touch the ground in the street, to drive home the point that she couldn't go into the street).

And removing a child from a dangerous situation is all well and good, but I have watched countless neighbors try that (if you go into the street again, we're going to go inside) and the child doesn't listen and they spend the whole summer going in and out and in and out. A toddler doesn't really see going inside as a punishment because they're just going to sit on the floor and play with toys -- unless you're putting an 18 month old in a time out, which I think is TOTALLY ridiculous.

groisamomma

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:49 pm

starmarket wrote:

I hear you and agree it is important to look for better ways down paths and all that. I don't think a parents should always be second-guessing themselves, though, but that's not so relevant here. Just for curiosity, and your kids are still young, did you and your dh never have occasion to potch any of your kids?

Nine is still young, but IRL I don't think I've ever spoke with anyone that has grown kids and never gave a potch. Then again, I might just be surrounded by potchy-slappy people.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:58 pm

groisamomma wrote:

I teach from as young as they understand. Every child has a different point at which he is able to accurately and consistently anticipate consequences in safety related situations. You have to know your child.

starmarket

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:59 pm

groisamomma wrote:

True story - we don't do it. We talked about it before we got married - to make sure that we agreed (we both felt strongly that we didn't want our kids to be hit).

gp2.0

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 11:00 pm

I always see the "stepping into the street" reason for potching, so I'd just like to share what worked for me, maybe it will work for other people too.

The age where they want to start walking on the street is a very independent age, but they also tire quickly, so I'd usually take along the stroller - and DD would hop in and out depending on her mood. I guess around age 18m-2.5.

Every time we approached a street corner I would remind her, "DD, we are going to cross the street, so you need to hold onto my hand now." Usually she was happy and proud to do it, like a big girl.

If she pulled away or stepped into the street I immediately picked her up and carried her (sometimes I would buckler her into the stroller) instead of letting her walk. And I told her, "DD, a street is dangerous. I told you to hold my hand, but now I can't let you walk on your own because you didn't hold my hand."

She would freak out and have a temper tantrum, I would maintain my hold on her for about 30 seconds, and then let her go with a reminder that there's no running in the street.

Hey, it worked for me. No potch and she learned that if she wants the privilege of walking independently she will have to follow my rules. So maybe this can work for someone else too.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 11:03 pm

allrgymama wrote:

I don't think a toddler doesn't understand that she'll get a potch, but I also don't think it's enough to take even 1% of the responsibility off you. You can accomplish the same goal, BTW, in other ways that are just as effective. For example, by scooping up the child and making her stay in your arms for one minute instead of playing. There's an undesirable consequence, but it isn't a message that a toddler will possibly distort.

Anyway, I wouldn't take a toddler to play outside in an area close enough to the street that you have to keep a constant eye on her. That doesn't sound very relaxing to me.

It's funny that you think time out is ridiculous but hitting is perfectly normal... Smile

gp2.0

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 11:11 pm

allrgymama wrote:

And removing a child from a dangerous situation is all well and good, but I have watched countless neighbors try that (if you go into the street again, we're going to go inside) and the child doesn't listen and they spend the whole summer going in and out and in and out. A toddler doesn't really see going inside as a punishment because they're just going to sit on the floor and play with toys -- unless you're putting an 18 month old in a time out, which I think is TOTALLY ridiculous.

Yeah, a better consequence would be to put the child into time out on the front steps. They can see everyone playing, but they can't play until time's up.

I don't understand - are you saying that an 18 month old can't understand a time out consequence? (IME they certainly can.) What is ridiculous about time out?

gp2.0

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 11:13 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

allrgymama

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 11:16 pm

Yes, I think a time out is an ineffective disciplinary tool for an 18 month old, in general. When I put my older daughter in a time out (or now with DD #2, since she's two and a half), I sit down with them for the entire time out and we discuss why they're in a time out and what they should do in the future to remember not to do it again.

I live in a development in LKWD. It's not a through-traffic street, so mostly the only cars going down are people who live in the development/on the block. And you're right, sometimes it isn't relaxing at all, which is why I stress so hard that they cannot go into the street. I don't understand how people in Brooklyn ever sit in the front of their houses with their children.

@gp2.0: see, and I think that that's even worse; it's teasing.