When to potch? | Imamother

MaBelleVie

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 7:59 am

I happen to know that the few times I have potched (which BTW is more symbolic than anything, it doesn't induce physical pain) have still been less scary to my child than me ever raising my voice. Which unfortunately has happened more than a few times Sad

You really have to know your child and his sensitivities.

5*Mom

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 9:15 am

The biggest problem with hitting isn't that it hurts or the fear factor. The biggest problem with hitting is that it is a violation of the body. It is crucial for a child to know he *owns* his own body and, barring life-threatening circumstances in which there is no other way to preserve the child, no one may do anything to his body without his consent. This is fundamental to physical safety and emotional stability.

pause

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 10:42 am

sneakermom wrote:

Making a child wait is also unsettling to me.

If you want to hit a child do it quickly and get over it. It's not like there's a special Bracha to make beforehand or anything. .

Actually from a chinuch point of view it is way better to wait than to potch in anger. The child sees the potch as a discipline measure and not as a way for the parent to vent. And no, there's no special bracha to make but the intention sometimes makes all the difference. An instinctive potch usually has no intention.
(this reminds me of the episode in shtissel where the father says a l'shem yichud to be mekayem the mitzva of chinuch before he slaps his twenty-something year old son. LOL

)

greenfire

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 1:11 pm

Delores wrote:

The way I see it, hitting does not achieve discipline but it can "condition" a child. I too would hit for a kid running in the street because I want to condition him/her never to do that. It is not something they need to "think about" also my child used to pick his nose and eat it so I whacked his hand away. This did not hurt him it was not meant to hurt but rather send a physical reminder that we "don't do that". When he sticks his hands in his pants on the other hand I NEVER EVER whack it because I want to discuss it and get him to understand why it is not appropriate to do that in public and where it is okay to do that. I don't care if he has bad associations with picking his nose is (something that whacking his hand will cause) but I do not want him to associate his hands in his pants with something altogether negative. So to answer your question: I don't think hitting should be used as a punishment but I do think there are times when it's okay.

you are contradicting yourself here ... a whack is a whack & losing self-esteem from picking your nose & getting hit is just as detrimental as dysfunctional zex for putting your hands in your pants & being scolded ...

treat them both the same - & everything else ... teaching a child the difference between things that should be done & not be done - be it for safety reasons or for privacy ... a kid is allowed to pick their nose - just give them a tissue to do it correctly ... a kid should be saved from going into the street - not conditioned like an animal with electric shock therapy ... show them the dead squirrel or a ball that got run over - teach them & protect them by holding their hands

greenfire

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 1:13 pm

pause wrote:

)

a potch is a potch regardless of your motives ... angry or sweetly ... there is no denying

mommyla

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 1:24 pm

Delores wrote:

How old is this kid who picks his nose? You realize that you can "condition" him just the same by gently taking his hand away from his nose rather than "whacking" it, then redirecting him. If he's old enough, explain the reasons. My 5-year-old DS just discovered the joys of picking his nose, and I've started telling him the logical reasons why nose picking is wrong (it looks disgusting, the germs from your fingers will go into your nose and make you sick, you can spread your nose germs all over...) and told him that if he MUST do it he should do it in the bathroom with a tissue wrapped around his fingers.

But to "whack" a child for a bad habit? Inconceivable.

And yes, I have potched in the past (rarely) for extremely dangerous situations.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 1:27 pm

greenfire wrote:

a potch is a potch regardless of your motives ... angry or sweetly ... there is no denying

I disagree. As a child, I had a real mouth. Sometimes I was so incredibly chutzpadig to my mother that my father would give me a potch when he got home later. It wasn't out of anger. It didn't hurt. My father never appeared angry, just sad that he had to do it. It made a big impact on me, in a good way.

gold21

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 1:40 pm

I'm with Sneakermom.

Asking "where should I potch you" and waiting to potch.... It's like telling a kid, "We're going to the doctor tomorrow, she is going to be giving you three shots, a strep culture, and a blood test" and then they can't fall asleep that night from worry and anxiety.

If you're gonna potch, just go ahead and potch.

It's definitely not the ideal method of chinuch, but I guess sometimes you're just desperate to make an impact on a child when nothing else seems to work.

Definitely do not potch often. It should be the last resort.

And don't potch hard, obviously. Because that would be child abuse. Which is a crime.

gp2.0

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 1:42 pm

sneakermom wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks it's degrading to ask someone where they want the potch?

It doesn't feel right to me.

Making a child wait is also unsettling to me.

Yes, that was my first thought too. It's sort of incorporating a psychological level of hurt along with the physical. It introduces a feeling of dread, a feeling that the child is "punishing herself" and I think the long-term ramifications could be very shaky.

IF a potch is used as a consequence, it should be used as any other consequence is used: "DD, if you do it one more time I'm going to have to potch you." "DD, you did it again, now I have to potch you." And potch. And finish.

(FWIW I don't condone potching at all. Ever. There's always another, less hurtful way to discipline.)

gp2.0

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 1:46 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

But wouldn't it have made the same impact on you if any other punishment/consequence was used? Wouldn't it have made the same impact if you mother looked incredibly disappointed with you and put you in time out?

The REAL trick to discipline, IMO, is showing kids you're disappointed with their actions when they misbehave. Not wanting to disappoint a parent cuts deeper than not wanting to get a potch.

daagahminayin

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:15 pm

I've just recently started reading about the unconditional parenting approach promoted by Alfie Kohn, which basically says that punishments (and for that matter, rewards) don't work.

This sits well with me, but on the other hand, my oldest daughter is only 2.5 years old, so maybe I don't know how bad it can really get without using strong discipline measures.

I know someone who potches her baby if she bites her during nursing - not as an instinctive reaction but to "teach her a lesson" - a lesson which doesn't even work... it breaks my heart, but what's more worrying is the fact that so many people I've asked about it don't even think it's a big deal.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:26 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

I really have no way of answering that Smile

My mother definitely looked disappointed and she probably sent me to my room too. I probably came out and mouthed off again. I do remember thinking that I didn't want to see my father's face when he had to potch me, and that definitely stopped me sometimes.

Anyway, I have no problem with the way my parents implemented potching. I think they were absolutely correct. I hope and pray that my own kids never test me the way I tested them!

Last edited by MaBelleVie on Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

greenfire

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 2:27 pm

as a mother who at one point or other spanked a kid or two ... I regret each & every one ... it gained nothing

I still feel guilty for spanking sonny boy when he threw a rock at my head ~ you hit me so I'll hit you seems the message rather than we don't throw rocks

you cannot take that back - even if inside I cry wondering if he remembers like I do

you have to wonder what goes through their heads 'why are you hitting me - I love you - don't you love me too'

amother

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 4:34 pm

Just out of curiosity, those of you who are saying potching is the same as husbands abusing their wives, what would you say if a woman was taking drugs and her husband would hit her hand when he saw her using? Would you think that's abuse? I'm not saying that would be the right way to treat a drug problem, but I can't see that as being abusive.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 4:38 pm

amother wrote:

It's ok to hit your kids when it's ok for your husband (especially if he's bigger and stronger than you) to hit you.

Really? So I shouldn't tell me kids to go to sleep, eat their dinner, go in their room to cool off, or share their toys? Because I wouldn't be OK with my husband telling me any of that.

deena19k

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 4:38 pm

amother wrote:

You comparing picking your nose to taking drugs? Confused

amother

Thu, Apr 03 2014, 4:45 pm

I potch very rarely, but I do think it has its time and place. Sometimes you want to make an immediate strong impact on the child when they do something really serious. For example, if a child is chutzpadik, they will instantly get a quick slap to let them know that they crossed a line. BH I have a beautiful relationship with all of my children and none have been scarred by the few slaps they received over the years.