When to potch? | Imamother

gp2.0

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 11:55 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

Gp, it's definitely a stage. My 4 yo has also been coming home and saying things like that, just out of the blue. I just look serious and say quietly, "it makes me very sad when you say something like that about your sister. It makes her feel bad too." Move on. At this point I just need to look in his direction to make him aware that I'm listening, and he catches himself.

Good to know! It always makes me feel better to know she's not the only one. And if she's hitting some developmental milestone maybe I should secretly be proud. LOL

MaBelleVie

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 11:59 am

gp2.0 wrote:

Good to know! It always makes me feel better to know she's not the only one. And if she's hitting some developmental milestone maybe I should secretly be proud. LOL

Lol! Be proud Smile

it's very out of character for my son too. I guess it's just increased understanding of these concepts combined with asserting power?

greenfire

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 1:01 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

Good to know! It always makes me feel better to know she's not the only one. And if she's hitting some developmental milestone maybe I should secretly be proud. LOL

kindly refrain from using red-flagged words in your sentence ... "hitting" should be replaced with --reaching--

gp2.0

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 1:30 pm

greenfire wrote:

kindly refrain from using red-flagged words in your sentence ... "hitting" should be replaced with --reaching--

Ha. It was a "pun unintended" (but actually intended.) Very Happy

greenfire

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 2:13 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

Ha. It was a "pun unintended" (but actually intended.) Very Happy

gotcha ... you know I'm just teasing right Cool

gp2.0

Fri, Apr 04 2014, 3:29 pm

greenfire wrote:

gotcha ... you know I'm just teasing right Cool

Yes.

5*Mom

Sat, Apr 05 2014, 2:22 pm

allrgymama wrote:

@5*Mom: It maybe took five potches for my daughter to learn last year that she is not allowed to set foot in the street.

I'm sorry, did you just say that you let your toddler step into the street alone 5 times?? Why would you even let it come to that? Why not just keep her out of the street? You do know that each time you allowed that to happen she could have been killed by a car, right? I am stunned.

allrgymama wrote:

This year, she may set foot if she is holding a grown ups hand. If she forgets, she gets a look and knows exactly what she did wrong. I am quite clear that the potch is for going into the street because it is dangerous and not because she was more interested in something across the street.
Children are children and yes, they often get caught up in the moment and forget things that they 'know' or choose to push boundaries. But I know my children as best as I can and I know that DD #2 had the mental capacity to understand the lesson that I was teaching.

You may be quite clear but your 2-yr-old is very likely less so. A 2-yr-old simply cannot make that fine a distinction. I'm not even certain that most 2-yr-olds can even differentiate between the street and the sidewalk. Unless she is a clinical genius, which I suppose is possible but statistically unlikely. My apologies if that is, indeed, the case.

allrgymama wrote:

Isn't that what @MaBelleVie was saying? Teaching lessons when you feel your child is ready for them?

Child development follows a certain general pattern and even allowing for individual variations, certain developmental milestones and cognitive processes are simply not possible before certain ages. I always think it's beneficial for parents to read up on child development to understand what their child is and is not capable of at certain ages and stages, and to understand their behavior more accurately.

allrgymama wrote:

As far as toddlers on the sidewalk goes: I'm not giving you the physical specs of my block to explain why the children can play on the sidewalk and lawns. Again, I wouldn't do it in Brooklyn and I wouldn't do it on 14th street or North Lake Drive or a thousand other places. For my block, in my development, so long as a parent is keeping an eye on the child, there shouldn't be anything wrong with riding bikes/trikes on the sidewalk and playing on lawns.

Except that your toddler was able to get into the street 5 times without you, such that you felt you needed to potch her for it. That is unconscionable to me.

5*Mom

Sat, Apr 05 2014, 2:27 pm

amother wrote:

Wow I feel like I need to congratulate each and every one of u... To never potch your kids! Hmmmm u are all amazing parents!!
I can't say the same for myself though, maybe I should stop having kids altogether if u all think they're beig ruined with an occasional potch.
Nebach my poor kids

No one is saying you're an evil parent, but why wouldn't you want to reexamine your philosophy and improve your parenting skills if you could?

amother

Sat, Apr 05 2014, 6:45 pm

I have no words for my sadness/horror/disgust when I was reading these posts.

I was hit as a child, a lot. Far too much. It was meant to "discipline" me. to teach me how to behave.

I think that a parent who chooses to hit a child needs help. You clearly have no idea the damage you are causing to your children. You think, whats the big deal, a little potch here and there, they still love me, they know I love them, we have a wonderful relationship blah blah blah puke.

You are kidding yourselves. Because until you literally climb inside your child's head, you CANNOT POSSIBLY know what damage you have caused. Of course they appear to act unharmed, and they still show you love, and everything appears to be fine with them. But you are doing some damage somewhere. It may take years until the affects of your wonderful "discipline" comes out, it may take until they have kids themselves for the affects to come out, but there are affects.

Remember - children are very very loyal to their parents, and that is why you won't notice any difference in their behavior towards you.

Everytime you lift up your hand to hit your child, you are pushing your child away from you (not physically, but emotionally). Your child may appear to treat you in exactly the same way as before but I promise you there are cracks there now. Each time you hit the cracks get bigger. Your don't see those cracks and your child doesn't understand those cracks, but they are there.

I am shocked when I am reading about parents who hit their children for running into the street.
If a child is too immature to understand the dangers of the street, then you never let them near the street without an adult.
When they are mature enough to be taught about road safety, then teach it to them.
If they still show you that they will run into the street even after you thought that they are mature enough to understand not to, and after you have taught them not to, then the only "punishment" that is suitable for that behavior is that they cannot be unsupervised near a street until they grow up a bit more and you try and teach them again.

How does HITTING fit that "crime"??

If a child is so immature that they may possibly run into a street, well, DON'T LEAVE THEM ALONE NEAR A STREET.
the fact that they are running into a street shows that they are not yet ready to be left alone near a street. PERIOD.
It does not mean that he needs to be hit!!!!!!!!!!!!

to the original poster. I was a hit child. I am SICKENED at any parent that thinks that hitting is okay. IT IS NEVER OKAY.

When I read that you make your child WAIT to be hit, and you make him choose where to be hit.... I just have no words. It is beyond cruel and evil to do that to a child.

When my father was angry and would hit me, I KNEW in my head that most of this hitting is because he has a temper problem and I happen to be the korbon. So in a way, the hitting wasn't so "personal" if that makes sense. Meaning, if no one was in the house to bear the brunt of his temper, he would smash something instead. It wasn't about ME as a person. It was about HIS temper problem.

But if he would wait to hit me, and hit me when he was calm, that would be worse. Because then I would know that the smack is PERSONAL. It's about ME. It's something that I did wrong. It's because I am a bad person. It would leave far more emotional scarring that the hitting that was done when he was in a temper. Because I KNEW that the only reason I am being hit is because I was unlucky enough to be in his way. Of course it also left emotional scarring, but not as deep as if he would hit me in a calculating calm way.

It literally makes me sick to think that a parent could do that to a child.
And choosing where to get the smack? just. sick. sick. sick. How could a parent be so cruelly calculating?
Can you imagine the shame and humiliation that your child feels when she has to choose a body part for you to smack??? I don't know how to explain this but it is sickening.

To those who think that hitting a child teaches a child that it is okay to hit - you are wrong.
It taught me the opposite. I would NEVER EVER EVER hit a child. NEVER. And it's BECAUSE I was hit. I will NEVER get over the humiliation of being hit, and because I so clearly feel that shame, I could never put that horrible shame onto my child.

tropicalrainforest

Sat, Apr 05 2014, 10:29 pm

You sound like a caring , responsible loving mother who wants what's best for her children .

That being said , I think you are causing your children a lot of harm by continuing with this discipline practice . I have children ages 1- 10 . Children in my opinion rarely need discipline ( I have my share of very challenging kids) they need a lot of redirection and even more positive reinforcement . If your children are acting "stupid " or chutzpadik , find out the why of the behavior before punishing . What feelings are causing this type of behavior . I urge you to read the nurtured heart by Howard glasser. Raising happy , emotionally healthy and empathetic children WILL NOT happen if you continue on your current path . Please muster up the courage to realize how detrimental these practices are and make every effort to educate your self on better parenting techniques . If need be , engage the help of a therapist specializing in family therapy to help you break the pattern. Hatzlacha .

allrgymama

Sat, Apr 05 2014, 10:47 pm

I will reiterate again that potching is NOT my go-to disciplinary method. I don't know why people keep reading over this fact. My children do NOT get potched on any kind of regular basis; if I kept track, I would be amazed if it's even once a month. Certainly not my five year old.

I talk to my children and discuss things with them and do time outs (and I sit through the time outs with them!) and positive reinforcement up the gazoo.

However, as someone who, on rare occasion, will potch for extreme chutzpadig or dangerous behavior, I had a question about this situation. Please see this as what it is: a mother questioning a parenting practice and looking to continue to evolve as a parent in keeping with my children's changing ages and behaviors.

I regret the use of the word 'stupid' (even putting in quotes as I did to distance it to begin with from outright calling my child's behavior stupid). It was absent-minded and unaware and spaced out and not paying attention.

Finally: there are very few behavior that are, in and of themselves, without exception, abuse. I don't want to be attacked, so I'm not going to give you my opinions on what those behaviors are. I will say, though, that a gentle slap on the back of the wrist (or wherever) is not by definition abusive. I don't believe and repeated comments trying to convince me otherwise will not do so.

I think that child abuse is a real and terrible thing in our community and I feel a deep pain for any of you who have experienced it. With my own upbringing, I do understand where many of you are coming from. There are things that my parents did when I was growing up that I am hypersensitive to as a parent and that I consciously stay away from. But I also know that I am capable of objectively looking at a situation and saying that my child may have done something to deserve a potch. And, when done the 'right' way, then there isn't a reason why the child doesn't recognize the slap on the back of the wrist as a disciplinary manner similar to a time out, or a revocation of privilege or whatever other method you might choose.

amother

Sat, Apr 05 2014, 11:03 pm

I was hit as a child. often enough. not every day and not past bas mitzva, but a few times a month or even a week.
I do not consider myself abused. I do not have any long standing issues. I do try not to hit my kids, but have on rare occasion.

tropicalrainforest

Sat, Apr 05 2014, 11:13 pm

Quote:

However, as someone who, on rare occasion, will potch for extreme chutzpadig or dangerous behavior, I had a question about this situation. Please see this as what it is: a mother questioning a parenting practice and looking to continue to evolve as a parent in keeping with my children's changing ages and behaviors.

And the answer to your question is yes . It is wrong , dangerous , counterproductive etc . To potch even on occasion , rarely , once a year etc.

If you truly want to continue evolving as a parent , you will STOP NOW. Learn to connect with your kids , stop the punitive discipline and motivate your kids positively .

gold21

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 12:35 am

tropicalrainforest wrote:

I disagree with you,

Children DO need discipline.

While potching is not a very good discipline method, having no discipline method is not very wise either.

I do sometimes need to put my child in his room for 5-10 minutes, and no, that is not detrimental to my child.

5*Mom

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 2:23 am

allrgymama wrote:

I will reiterate again that potching is NOT my go-to disciplinary method. I don't know why people keep reading over this fact.

No one is reading over this fact. We are responding to your current practice, exactly as you describe it. I actually just went back and read your op; your baby was 1 1/2, not even 2, when you instituted your practice of let-her-run-into-the-street-a-few-times-so-I-can-potch-her-for-it and you did it so you wouldn't have to "spend the summer running after my kid in the street." Your premise was faulty, your method was dangerous and you wanted to sit down.

We are also noticing, as you don't seem to be, that you are considering escalating your potching practices to include situations that are so unclearly defined that even you can't find the right word to describe them, need to use quotes, and then clarify when we, inevitably, misunderstand what you are trying unsuccessfully to explain. Yet you still consider yourself "capable of objectively looking at a situation and saying that my child may have done something to deserve a potch." I'd step back and reexamine that if I were you.

Your original question was: "What kind of stupidity deserves a potch?"

Are you still sure you want that answered?

lifesagift

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 2:55 am

Consider, When u typically potch when child does something dangerous, and now u start potching for what udeem stupid", your child may think theyre on the same level

heidi

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 3:29 am

In Israel hitting is illegal. Even if your child runs into the street. While I understand your reasons, I question your method. There is no such thing as "potching done right"

tropicalrainforest

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 6:04 am

Gold , I meant punitive discipline . Also I was referencing her 2 year old . 2 year olds need a lot of redirection and positive reinforcement and in my opinion very little "discipline ".

Sending a child to his room does not fall in this category . Discipline used to diffuse a situation ( like what you do ) letting a child calm down , re group and manage his emotions and feelings about a situation is correct . Hurting ( potching ) , embarrassing , degrading and insulting methods of discipline should ALWAYS be avoided.

otsrock

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 8:55 am

OP, I am totally with you on potching when a young child does something dangerous. An 18 month old wouldn't understand time out or sitting in a chair for running into the street. A potch, in behavioral analysis, is immediate cause and effect. I run into the street, I get something I don't like. Try explaining this in words to an 18 month old, and call me so I can laugh. As for older children, potching is not as effective as explaining to them what they did wrong, because they don't need an immediate effect to understand what they've done wrong. I proudly potch my baby's tushy when she tries to topple over the floor lamp. Should I explain to her that what she did is dangerous? She's the only 1 1/2 year old I know that now steps a foot away from the lamp and says "booboo", because that is how immediate cause and effect works.

starmarket

Sun, Apr 06 2014, 8:59 am

As other posters have already written - an 18 month old should not be running in the street - not because they learn to be afraid of getting hit by their mother but because their mother should making sure this doesn't happen. Period.