Baby in Your Bed | Imamother

Motek

Wed, Sep 22 2004, 7:56 pm

The well-known Chasid, Reb Mendel Futerfas a'h said that he once stayed with a family in Russia while he was fleeing the government. A terrible thing happened. The lady of the house, who was sleeping with her baby, woke up in the middle of the night and to her horror, realized that the baby was lifeless. Apparently, she had suffocated it accidentally.

From his bed he could hear her pacing back and forth, repeating over and over, "What have I done? What have I done?"

This continued for hours, and afterwards she began to ask herself, "What do I do now? What do I do now?"

R' Mendel said that on that difficult night, two stages of teshuva became concrete for him: regret for the past (What have I done?) and a good resolution for the future (What do I do now?).

Motek

Thu, Sep 23 2004, 9:41 am

Quote:

I'm not sure what is the point of the story

it's a "maaseh sh'haya" (something that actually happened) and I think there are two points:

1) it illustrates the dangers of sleeping with one's baby
2) for R' Mendel, a Chasid, everything he experienced was a lesson to him in avodas Hashem, so to him, it was a lesson in teshuva

Quote:

I know someone who smothered her baby while still in the hospital.

oy! how awful! and how surprising when you never (well, now, almost never) hear of this happening
and the mother told people!?

miriam

Thu, Sep 23 2004, 9:53 am

I am not sure why you started this topic. I am sleeping with baby #2 and I couldn't imagine it any other way. I am too tired to sit up and nurse so many times in the middle of the night. BUT I am certainly not to tired to always be keeping an ear out, awake or asleep. I have also heard these HORRIBLE TERRIBLE stories. In each case the mother was either very ill or on medication.

micki

Thu, Sep 23 2004, 3:22 pm

motek- please do not be judgemental. I know this lady and of course she should share her pain!!!! she is my sisters friend and everyone was comforting her. why should she hide it?????????

and yes this mother was on medication she had a high fever - how could you even THINK otherwise????

again I think your story is in poor taste. most people sleep with their babies. don't dare suggest that if they sleep with their babies this could happen.
instead a gentler approach would have been to start a topic on sleeping with baby- what is your opinion. don't go in with horror stories. nobody wants to hear it.

Motek

Thu, Sep 23 2004, 5:19 pm

ahem
it's right before Yom Kippur, so let's try not to hurl accusations, okay?

the "judgemental" line doesn't exactly work either, since your post judged mine ...

so, how about if we state our views and explain where and why we disagree without getting all defensive?

Quote:

I know this lady and of course she should share her pain!!!! she is my sisters friend and everyone was comforting her. why should she hide it?????????

did I say she should hide it?
I was expressing surprise that she would tell "everyone" how the baby died

Quote:

and yes this mother was on medication she had a high fever - how could you even THINK otherwise????
again I think your story is in poor taste.

I think these comments are out of line. I don't understand your question and it's Reb Mendel's story, not mine. If you think this special chasid was wrong for telling the story, nu nu.

Quote:

most people sleep with their babies.

says who?
and if they do, maybe they use a co-sleeper as one poster recommended
and if they do (without a co-sleeper), who says they're doing the right thing
since when does what "most people do" mean it's right?

Quote:

don't dare suggest that if they sleep with their babies this could happen.

ahem, I can and I did

Quote:

don't go in with horror stories. nobody wants to hear it.

again, it's Reb Mendel's story
speak for yourself when you say you don't like it, it's presumptuous to say "nobody wants to hear it"

perhaps if women hear it, they'll be more careful, maybe they'll work out a safe arrangement, maybe a bassinet or portacrib right near their bed
the head in the sand approach, I.e. don't tell me what I don't want to hear, is not helpful

Pickle Lady

Thu, Sep 23 2004, 5:34 pm

Can SIDS AKA Crib Death AKA Cot Death only be in a crib or can it happen in a bed next to a mother?

Personally we don't know what happened and not everytime was it absolutlty because the mother smothered the baby.

go to askdrsears.com he is very pro sleeping with the baby and he will tell you why from a medical point of view.

Shayna

miriam

Thu, Sep 23 2004, 5:37 pm

It is well known that woment do not suffocate babies in their sleep unless ill, medicated, drunk or otherwise impaired.

I am sorry if you believe otherwise, but your belief doesn't change the facts.

In the story you quoted you know nothing at all about the circumstances. For you know it was a an allegorical tale, and not even real. Even if true, the woment could have been drunk - certainly not something unheard of in Russia. Additionally in those times infant mortality was quite high - who says the mothers belief that she was the one that caused it was actually the case?

And as far as how many people sleep with their babies: it's basically the entire planet for the last 5000 or so years, only recently did people start using cribs (around victorian times), and only in countries that were influenced that way (England, US mainly).

So please stop fear mongering. Sleeping with babies is quite safe unless, like I wrote above, the person is ill or impaired. And if the husband is in the bed as well, this applies to him too.

Rochel Leah

Thu, Sep 23 2004, 6:07 pm

I dont sleep with my baby cuz I am scared I will roll over on to him- even though I know I won't. but my hubby sleeps with the baby when he isnt feeling well. but otherwise kol hakavod to all those who do sleep with their babies-

by the way what is aco-sleeper( excuse my ignorance)

b'h my father in law / mother in law have three little ones in their beds and bh they don't get hurt.-

BelovedBird

Thu, Sep 23 2004, 6:45 pm

http://www.attachmentparenting.....shtml (safe cosleeping guidlines)

http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/cosleep.html (LLL article on cosleeping)

http://www.mothering.com/9-0-0.....shtml (an article from Mothering magazine, extensive research, including statistics)

Bottom line, ask your rav if you feel it is a halachik issue (sakana)

A "cosleeper" is a type of crib with three sides that attaches on the forth side to the adult bed- like this: http://www.armsreach.com/

Liba

Fri, Sep 24 2004, 8:09 am

I sleep with my kids. I have had a baby in my bed pretty much constantly for the last six years. I can say I would fall out of bed well before I would roll over onto my child. My babies when they are little instinctivly root and move twords me and often I wake up to move them since they are pushing me off the bed! I also wake up when I roll over onto a book if I am reading in bed and fall asleeep. I have to say that my kids have bigger taller harder heads than a book. Rolling Eyes

I would have to be pretty exausted or medicated to #1 roll onto a big old baby (even my 3 lb 11 oz baby had what looked like a nice round bumpy uncomfortable head) and to #2 stay there long enough to suffocate them! It isn't instintanous!!!

That said, there were a couple times that I put one of my babies to sleep not in my bed. WIth my first there were times I was just too tired to feel safe sleeping with her. She had medical issues which kept both of us from sleeping well. I am not saying that I WOULD have rolled onto her, but I used my judgement to make sure that I wouldn't.

Getting up in the middle of the night to nurse a baby who isn't with me could cause a lot of issues too. Babies often get dropped when the parent falls asleep rocking or feeding them sitting in a chair. That can cause brain damage as well as other injuries, there is even a possibility of a bread bleed and death. We don't tell all parents not to take care of their babies in the middle of the night, do we?

Henya

Fri, Sep 24 2004, 9:07 am

When my daughter was born, my husband & I noticed that when she was in either of our beds she slept way better than if she was in her own bassinet. It felt comforting to have her there. When some of my sisters-in-law heard that our baby was in our beds, they strongly cautioned us against it saying that when we'll want to move her to her own bed it will be so hard to do it b/c she's so used to being in our beds. They told me it was best to have her start off & continue in her own bed. Being a first time mother, What do I know? So I listened to them & put her in her own bassinet. Looking back now, it's a decision I regret. IY"H with my future children I will definitely follow my motherly insticts.

Yael

Fri, Sep 24 2004, 10:13 am

I slept with my babies for the first couple of months for sure. then depending on when I finally bought a crib for them moved him into his own bed.my oldest was in his own room in a crib at 3 months to start the night but he would always end up back in my bed. unless he slept through the night, then I would get the bed to myself for the whole night. my second was in my bed till about 7 months cuz he didnt have a crib to go to. when we finally bought a second crib, I transfered him but he had a very hard time adjusting to being in his own bed. I would have liked to transfer him before he was 6 months. but he always ended up back in my bed when he'd wake up. and unless I woke up and transfered him back when he was done nursing, he'd stay there till morning. even now he wakes up to nurse at around 6-7 and he stays in my bed till I get up.