Unbelievably frustrated with my 7yo dd

amother

Tue, Jul 05 2011, 11:36 pm

My dd is 7 - and she wets herself EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. And it's slowly killing me and affecting my relationship with her.
Background:
Dd was potty trained at the very normal age of 2 1/2. It went relatively easily, after the first few weeks she rarely had accidents and none at all once she hit age 3. This includes nighttime - I never woke her or took her to the bathroom at night, or made any sort of effort to train her for the night, but just about 5 or 6 weeks after daytime training she started to be dry all night, every night on her own. She has never wet the bed since, and wakes up and goes by herself if necessary. So we know she has the ability to hold it for a long period of time.
When she turned 5, she started to sometimes be a little bit wet during the day. And pretty quickly, the sometimes turned into all the time, daily. It's been two years now and she is still wet every day. Sometimes it's only a tiny bit, but usually it's more than that. It's not so much that it's dripping down her legs making puddles on the floor, but if you smell her skirts and even her coat in the winter you will definitely smell pee. We have had her thoroughly examined by a top doctor and no medical cause was found. We have already tried:
Ignoring the problem
Having her clean her own underwear
Telling her that no one would want to be her friend because she smelled. She didn't fall for this at all, and she has a best friend and many other friends both at school and out of school, so I guess no one has noticed.
Charts to monitor progress and charts to count down to a reward. There has never been any progress to monitor.
Offering rewards for every dry day
Offering money
Offering to make all of her dreams come true
Ignoring again
Putting her back in diapers
Taking away privileges
Keeping her home from school
Punishments
Threatening to tell her teacher
Ignoring again
Buying a beautiful fancy new set of underwear for her to wear when she could stay dry. It was eventually outgrown and given away without ever once being worn.
Underwear with her favorite characters on it
Not letting her sit on my lap, or the couch or chairs since I didn't want pee on them
More prolonged ignoring

None of it has made one bit of difference. I decided that enough was enough and this has to end. I decided to use the week and a half between camp and school to tackle this once and for all. I started by sending her to the bathroom every half hour, as in potty training. I told her since she had shown me that when left to decide when to go, she consistently makes bad decisions so I would have to be the one to tell her. She purposely refused to go in the toilet and waited till she got off to go in her underwear. So I switched to making her sit on the toilet and not get off until she went. But this only worked when at home. Out of the house she did as she pleased. And as soon as I stopped doing this, she went right back to her old ways. Something drastic was called for.
I was at my wits' end. So finally I decided to go all out. Much as I hated to do it, I was out of options ans so I made dd sit on the toilet all day long (we have another one for the rest of us to use). I did make sure to give her reasonable breaks - she woke up, went on the toilet for a while, let her out for a leisurely getting-dressed session, back on the toilet, out for breakfast, back on, out again for davening, back to toilet, and so on until bedtime. She was permitted to carry out normal daily activities, but all free time was spent sitting on the toilet. She passed the time by reading, her favorite thing to do, and barely even noticed. She didn't seem bothered at all, and still found time wet herself during one of her many breaks. So I made her do it again the next day, telling her we would do this every day until she could show that she was dry. On the second day her underwear was spotless clean and she won her freedom back. I warned her that if she was wet again, she would go right back to spending her day on the toilet - but this time she wouldn't be allowed to read. She was dry for three days, then a relapse. So she should have spent the next day on the toilet, but we had important appointments and had to be away from home for most of the day. And she was wet that day. So she then had to be on the toilet for the next two days. No reading this time - she passed the time by chatting with the rest of us and drawing while on the toilet. Then there were two more days left before daycamp started. I warned her that she needed to stay dry for both days or we'd have to do the toilet thing again and she'd miss the first day. She was dry both days. She went to daycamp and stayed dry the first day. I made it clear to her that if she were to come home wet on any day she would have to stay home and on the toilet the following day, no matter what - if there was a trip, show, special activity planned, too bad - she would have to miss it. Today was the second day of daycamp. She came home bubbling over with excitement about going on an awesome trip tomorrow. She also came home with a small yellow spot on her brand new solid white underwear. It was pretty small, so I asked her how it happened in the hope that perhaps she'd have a good excuse and I could find some saving grace to let her go on the trip after all. I had obviously told her I would keep her home and on the toilet the next day if she ever came home wet, but, you know, I really, REALLY, really didn't want to take this away from her, but a word is a word, and this issue is going on for way too long. But I tried. And then everything went wrong. Dd told me it happened at lunchtime, because she couldn't go to the bathroom then. She said she asked her counselor if she could go and was told "Not now." In which case, I could have excused her. If this had only been true. When I pressed her further, she admitted she had lied to me. The actual truth was that she noticed she needed to go but at that exact moment the counselor announced it was time to bentch, and she didn't want to skip bentching. Again, a perfectly good excuse - and I think I might have let her go on the trip since it was the first time since camp started, and the spot was so small and she had a reasonable explanation - if not for the fact that she LIED to me, which deserves a punishment by itself!
So now I'm torn about what to do. On the one hand, making her miss this trip is so cruel. On the other hand, 1) She LIED to me 2) a seven year old is expected to keep her underwear dry all day every day, no ifs ands or buts 3) if I let her get away with it when it's only the second day of probation she will probably walk all over me 4) a word is a word and how will she ever respect anything I say if I don't enforce my own rule 5) I know she CAN keep dry as she does every night and did for six days following this latest punishment procedure, so there is no earthly reason for her to just completely ignore my rules, not to mention social norms!
I am at my wits' end. Though I make sure to act calm and treat my daughter with love all the same, I have a huge amount of inner resentment toward her for putting me through this. I can't take it any more! And I still don't know what to do about tomorrow.
P. S. Some might wonder if there could be a psychological component to this. I must say I highly doubt it and so does the doctor. Dd is an extremely bright, happy, active child who is at the top of her class in school, and has a best friend as well as many other good friends. She loves school and besides, this issue is equally present during school days and vacations so it's almost certainly not school related. She is a totally normal, positive, well-adjusted kid who gets tons of love from her parents. We make sure to give her a good amount of personal one-to-one attention every single day. She is b"h clever and capable and rarely has to struggle with anything, and is cheerful more often than not. She has b"h never had to deal with any hardships in life, no stress about anything, our home is a stable, loving, affectionate, and happy one and she has self-confidence in spades. Her youngest sibling is three years old (and b"h doesn't have toileting accidents, I might add) and this issue started two years ago, so it can't be that. Our children are like any others - sometimes they get into fights, but you can tell they love each other very much. In short, a kid with no problems, successful at almost everything she does, school and making friends come easily to her, and we have a close enough relationship that I would know if something were bothering her.
Maybe I should get psychological help for myself to help me cope with this, but I want it to go away, not to cope with it!
Anon to protect my dd's privacy.

amother

Tue, Jul 05 2011, 11:50 pm

I really feel for you Hug

I have a similar issue with my 8 year old son, and I could have written the list of things you have done almost verbatim. My latest issue is that my son started soiling his pants, which let me tell you, is the most stressful thing in my life. We have just applied to get him into a child phychology program, and I'm hoping this will be the right track. (just figuring out who to take him to, and how to deal with it, is torture in itself)

My question to you is:
does she have any other issues, like do you think she has add, or adhd tendancies? is she impulsive in general? does she maybe have tourrettes? usually wetting every day is part of a bigger picture, and is not an exclusive problem. She probably needs some outside help.

I find that sometimes, my son is getting so much negative attention, and I know it's not good, but it's almost impossible to find positives. I keep trying, we mothers can only try our best, Good Luck!!!

amother

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 12:13 am

First of all, I am having similar issues with my 5 year old. Second, I had accidents until at least 4th grade (maybe 5th?). I think you are putting too much blame on your daughter, and to say there is no psychological component is ridiculous. My pediatrician said that something like 3-5% of 8 year olds still wet themselves (I don't remember the exact statistic, but I'm sure you could find it.) It might be as simple as a lack of physical or emotional maturity. Anyway, your daughter is old enough that she needs to take control of this herself. I've had a lot of success (along with some setbacks, of course) with my 5 year old by letting her wear pull-ups at night and decide for herself when she's ready to wear underwear at night. Seeing her 3 year old sister start to stay dry at night has helped. During the day, I'm careful not to shame her when she has an accident, but deal with it as matter-of-factly as possible. I also give little rewards when she stays dry for an entire day, or sometimes just for going to the bathroom one time. It sounds like forcing her to sit on the toilet the entire day, and punishments like taking away camp trips (how is that related to staying dry???) are backfiring. Anyway, I hope I'm not coming off too harsh. I am also extremely frustrated by this with my own child. I hope you find a solution soon.

Kayza

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 12:52 am

Let's get this straight: You have a 7 year old child who wets her pants every single day, day in day out, and you have decided that there is no physiological or psychological reason for this, because none of her siblings have this problem and you have a wonderful home.

If your pediatrician actually agrees with this then he really should be sued for malpractice. I don't care how lovely your home is, this is NOT normal behavior, and a kid who has lots of friends is hardly a candidate for "just because she is obnoxious." Either she has a physiological issue (which may or may not resolve itself on its own) or she has a psychological issue.

By the way, why were you inspecting her panties so closely that you found "a small spot"?

amother

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 1:46 am

amother wrote:

I really feel for you Hug

I had the soiling issue with DS at about that age. Our psychologist said that this behavior is a child's "nuclear weapon". I hope you'll find a helpful psychologist.

OP, sometimes kids are good at hiding what is bothering them. Sometimes they also just have small bladders. You are now engaged in a major power struggle with her. Obviously it doesn't bother her to be wet - I also had this issue with my DD. So if it doesn't bother her or she's doing it to show she has control, none of what you are doing will work. Try a psychologist.

It's difficult.

deself

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 6:08 am

VERY IMPORTANT: Soiling is totally different from wetting, and can often have a very simple physical cause.
I feel terrible, terrible, terrible till today because I had a kid (now young adult) who soiled for almost a year at about 3, and then again at about 5, and I treated it like an emotional/ psychological thing, with rewards, punishments, shaming, all that. Till I finally asked my pediatrician, who said, Sure, it's almost always just because of constipation! Cure the constipation and it will go away.
And I said: Constipation? But it's always coming out soft, and in his underwear!
And MD said: Yeah, they get a hard lump stuck inside, which creats a pocket in the bowel, and it can stay there for months. And meanwhile the rest of their BM has to squeeze around it, and therefore comes out mushy, leaking, and at all the wrong times.
"Bottom" line: Two enemas and a careful diet to make sure that nothing collecting in the bowel pocket, and the leaks stopped totally. If they came back, I redid the enema and was more careful. The pediatrician prescribed a stool softener, which we used for a while, but then I just explained the problem to ds and taught him to go to the bathroom the first second he felt anything, and that was it.
Poor kid, getting shamed and all that for something that was totally out of his control!
Why didn't I think of asking MD sooner?! Because I thought I knew all about soiling.
I don't know anything about wetting, but my experience shows that there can be very counter-intuitive stuff going on. Don't rely on the opinion of only one doctor, no matter how "top." I've had super-top doctors be wrong about other issues with my kids, which were resolved sometimes by some ordinary docs who were the right lucky shaliach.
Don't rule out psychological stuff, and there, too, ask around and hear a few opinions.
A seven year old who is so out of touch with this issue sounds like there could be all kinds of stuff going on.

rydys

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 8:06 am

wetting can be caused by constipation, as well, even with regular stools. It may be that this started as a physical problem, but it has certainly now transformed into a psychological issue, which may only be a power struggle.

It is important to realize that children can be stressed by things that would not bother us as adults. Just becuase YOU as an adult do not see any reason for her to be stressed, that does not mean that she is not

As far as the trip, I'd let her go and give her some other punishment for the lying. Not wanting to miss bentching is a valid reason for "a tiny little spot" on the underwear at age 7. Many 7 year olds still wet here and there, usually due to laziness or not wanting to miss out on something. Missing the trip was the punishment for wetting her pants, not for lying.

amother

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 8:57 am

op here

I just want to clarify some things here that maybe were misunderstood in some of the responses.
First off, the point of what I was doing was not that if she wets, she misses the trip. It was in the context of, "If you show me, on any day, that you did not stay dry all day and find your way to the bathroom on your own when necessary, then you will have to spend the following day at home on the toilet all day." To her bad luck, or rather poor decision making, the day she was supposed to undergo this correction procedure happened to be the one on which a trip is scheduled. Now, if I make an exception to my rule because it's such a special day, that will give her license to wet herself before every special day as she knows she is safe from consequences.

The reasons we (her parents and doctors) feel she is capable of and should be expected to control her bladder are:
a)she is always dry all night
b)she was perfectly dry from ages three to five
c)neither her regular pediatrician nor the specialist could find any physical reason for her wetness. Which makes sense - why would a physical issue suddenly develop at age 5 when none existed before?
d)she proved that she IS able to control herself for a total of six days after I adopted this extreme approach

I want to give a bit of a bigger picture of my dd. She is, by nature, and has been this way since birth, a supremely laid-back, unruffled sort of child. She is even-tempered in the extreme and amazingly resilient. No matter what happens, she takes it all in stride. Very few things will really get her upset, and she bounces back super-fast when she does. She has never thrown a tantrum in her life, and it's rare that she really desperately wants anything in particular - she is thrilled with any present you give her, and gets just as excited with a small thing as with a big expensive one. In short, it takes a lot to faze her. Which is a great nature for a person to have, but makes her really difficult to parent as she gets older because there is little I can do that will have an effect on her behavior. She will always find a way to look on the bright side and be happy with what she has, thereby minimizing the reward or privilege she isn't getting, or the consequence she has been given for misbehavior. When promised a reward for changing behavior, she will work for it if it's something she doesn't mind doing all that much but just needed a little push, but often she'll be like, "the heck with the reward, it's not worth working so hard to change myself, I'm ok the way I am and I'm ok with not getting the reward."

All of which is to explain why none of the other things I tried got her to keep dry for even one day. She just wasn't really bothered by them. It took something huge to really rock her world and make a difference, but the problem is it wasn't a long-lasting difference. If I force her to stay home and miss the trip, she'll be kind of disappointed and then just get over it and get on with her day and find her joy in eggs for breakfast instead.

It's not that she just decides to wet her underwear during the day - it's that she really doesn't care one way or another, and doesn't see it affecting her social life or anything else in a negative way, so when she needs to go, if she's too interested in what she is doing right then, she decides to hold it for as long as possible and will only go to the bathroom when she can no longer hold it and is already starting to leak a little bit. She told me this herself and I have seen it in action when observing her.

Oh, and for whoever asked, since we embarked on this intensive program of get-rid-of-wetting-problem, she and I check her underwear together every night, so she can get positive reinforcement for doing well, or the promised consequence if not.

I consulted a parenting expert about this. Her suggestions are included in the list of things we tried that didn't work.

ora_43

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 9:06 am

Why does it matter so much?

I know it's gross and she shouldn't be doing it, but 7-year-olds do all kinds of gross and antisocial things. By age 10 or 11 she'll already be feeling a bit more social pressure, and won't want to be the only kid still wetting herself.

I'm not saying to let it go until then, keep on working to find the key to motivating her to stop. But it might help you be less stressed if you can put it in perspective, both in terms of the severity of the problem (it's icky, but not destructive or harmful to her or others) and how important it is that you fix it (only kinda important - it'd be nice to solve it now, but even if you do nothing she won't still be allowing herself to pee in her underwear as a teenager).

deself

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 9:13 am

I had a super laid back happy kid like this. B"H no wetting problems, but motivating was pretty impossible. I found that immediate rewards were necessary because NOW was always so good that no "later" could ever compete. Nothing like "if you do X you'll get a prize tonight." The prize had to be *visible* and ready for the getting. Out-of-sight prizes also couldn't compete with how great here-and-now was. And the prize had to be way over the top to compete with whatever he was happy with already.
Eventually, in his mid to late teens, he learned on his own to appreciate delayed rewards/ gratification. Till then it was a lot of Tehillim (and still is), because all of life, responsiblity, working for results, etc, is about delayed rewards.

Shopmiami49

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 9:20 am

I don't have an answer for you about the problem at large. However, based on what you wrote in your op, you are upset about 2 things on the day she came home with a spot on her underwear:1) that she wet herself and 2)that she lied to you.

A small spot is not wetting oneself. She may have made a poor judgement by holdign it for whatever reasons, but it sounds like a little tiny bit came out, not a whole puddle on the floor type of thing. She probably lied to you because she is scared of being punished. She doesn't want to ahve to miss the trip the next day. She also has probably been picking up on your anxiety and may be scared to rock the boat. It still doesn't make it right for her to lie to you, though.

So how should you handle the situation? If I were the mother in this situation, I would give her a punishment for lying - NOT the same punishmetn that she would generally receive for wetting herself. I would say "Dd, you lied to me and that is not ok. You need to be punished ins XXX way b/c of that." Regarding her wet spot on her underwear, I honestly would overlook it. I would not punish her for it. Rather I would use that as anexample to point out to her what happens when you hold it in. I would note the difference between that and wetting completely. I think that this might giver her the encouragement to keep trying, while still learning a thing or two about not lying.

amother

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 1:00 pm

op again

I want to thank all of you who helped me put this problem in perspective. I want to stress that while this isn't hurting me directly, I do want dd to stop doing it for her own sake, BEFORE it begins to affect her social life. I am very much afraid that as they get older the other children WILL begin to notice and I truly don't want my child to suffer because of this. I fear it will be harder to solve if it is allowed to go on even longer. Truly, there is no guarantee that she will stop on her own when she is older and I so much want to nip it in the bud before it causes her real suffering. Maybe I'm overreacting, but it is borne out of love and wanting to protect my child from what could potentially be a long period of misery down the road. Why can't kids accept what is good for them?!?

On a far, far, lower level of importance is the fact that I'm supremely annoyed by having to stain-treat every single pair of her underwear before washing, since the stains don't come out otherwise and it grosses me out to leave them there. But that's small stuff compared to what this could do to my dd's life in the future if it continues.

Ultimately I ended up letting dd go on the trip after all. She could hardly believe her luck when fifteen minutes before the bus was coming I told her if she could get ready in time she could go - dd is a huge slowpoke and normally needs to take loads of time in the mornings, but I've never seen her move so fast. Just goes to show how much she wanted this, since she usually doesn't care to hurry up no matter how I motivate her so I've basically given up and make sure to give her all the time she needs. I made it clear to her that this was a one time exception, no such luck if there is a next time, and this was happening only because it was only a very little bit, it was the first time, and she really had a good reason - but I let her know there would be a different consequence in store for the lying when she gets home. Now I need to think of one, which is really difficult as not many things really affect her.

I don't think I will hassle her about the state of her underwear when she gets home today because she'll be away from home/school all day and it might be difficult for her to consistently get to the bathroom on time, so I am realistically expecting some wetting.

deself

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 1:20 pm

amother wrote:

op again

I don't think I will hassle her about the state of her underwear when she gets home today because she'll be away from home/school all day and it might be difficult for her to consistently get to the bathroom on time, so I am realistically expecting some wetting.

Good for you. That sounds like a very well-balanced attitude.
Good luck

mummiedearest

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 3:06 pm

op,

a few things:

1. am I correct in my calculations that the wetting started when little bro was a year old? that's a pretty average time for sibling rivalry to set in, the younger one is just old enough to get into older sib's things. yes, that could certainly be a psychological reason. kids who are laid back often feel things more deeply than they let you know, and wetting oneself is a common enough way of showing that the kid needs something emotionally.

2. a small spot is not a big deal. many kids do that through no fault of their own.

3. stain treat urine stains? since you mention that the spot was yellow, I'd make sure your daughter is drinking enough. if she was drinking enough, her urine would not be that noticeably yellow, especially if it's only a small spot. have you considered dehydration as a cause? when dehydrated, one may feel the urge to urinate without having enough urine to go easily. if she's not drinking enough on a regular basis, she could actually be having a hard time figuring out when she really has to go and when her body is tricking her. I'd definitely consider this. my kids have accidents, and I've never had to stain treat a urine stain.

4. I'd steer clear of telling her no one will be her friend, etc. that's a rather harsh thing to say to a seven-year-old. she has friends, so all you're accomplishing is telling her that you find it gross. better to say that straight out than have her think that you think SHE'S gross.

I think that your current approach can work as long as you remain calm the whole time. but you have to define what constitutes "wetting" and what is not a big deal. come up with clear definitions and tell your daughter what they are so there's no confusion.

Tamiri

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 3:38 pm

amother wrote:

OP I am probably wrong, but here's my take on your post: you are smothering her. You are so worried about "what ifs" (what if children notice her wetting, what if she starts to suffer) that you are willing to give yourself a hernia, stress yourself out and lose your mind rather than allowing the inevitable to happen. I think you are also worried about what people will think about you and your perfect (BH) child and life. That they will think something is wrong with YOU to have such a child.

"What IF" the inevitable happens? So her friends will see she's wetting herself. What then? What horrible, terrible, no good, very bad thing will occur? Someone will say something? The girls will hold their noses and point at her and whisper "she stinks"? Is THAT the scenario you are imagining? She'll be stigmatized ad 120?

And what suffering do you think she'll endure? Will it be worse than a mother who holds her on the toilet for hours a day? Who sniffs and inspects her panties? Who grills her about her every pish? Who forces her to lie so that her mother won't disapprove of her choices, and ends up disappointing her mother anyway when the truth is found out?

Why not leave her alone? You describe a lovely little girl who pishes in her pants. Which part of the lovely do you want to ruin, so long as she stays dry?

I know it's hard. I know it stinks. I remember the smell of one little boy in a class I worked in. He reeked. He's a married man today. I don't think he still reeks. Your daughter won't walk down the aisle reeking, either.....

Barbara

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 3:57 pm

OP, you haven't talked about what SHE says. You haven't talked about when or where this happens. Is this inattentiveness to the need to urinate? Embarrassment at asking to use the rest room? Situational incontinence (where she releases a drop of urine when she is near the restroom, as her body signals *go*)? a child who gets too absorbed in tasks at hand? Not liking to use public restrooms? A bad experience in a public restroom? Not recognizing the need to go?

I really feel that the punishment that you have devised -- making a 7 year old sit on the toilet virtually all day long -- is humiliating and demeaning. Not to mention the close examination of underwear, to find not dampness, but a small stain (in this heat, I would attribute it to sweat, but what do I know). I cannot imagine that these actions serve any purpose other than to reinforce that you think she is a bad person. I *know* that you don't, but that's certainly what you're conveying to me.

Reboot. Talk to her. Then devise a plan, together. She doesn't like asking to go, so you'll talk to her counselors and teachers about letting her go without asking, or suggesting she go when another girl goes. (*Suri, why don't you go along with Ruchel to the bathroom*) Its probably a good idea to go in pairs at camp anyway. Buy her colored underwear so that you cannot examine it for every little stain or mark. Its her body. You can't force her to do anything, but you can help her with it.

ora_43

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 4:04 pm

OP, have you talked to her teachers and counselors at camp? Do they know she has this problem? According to them, does she ask to go during the day?

Maybe she's just getting distracted by play and ignoring her bladder, and a simple reminder to her to go every couple of hours would do the trick?

I agree with Tamiri on the emotional aspect. Yes, if it comes to the point where another child says, "eeww, you smell like pee" her feelings will probably be hurt, she'll probably find it upsetting. OTOH, sitting on a toilet for most of the day is also upsetting. Being told that nobody will like her if she wets herself is upsetting. Missing camp because of an accident is upsetting. Not being allowed on her mother's lap is upsetting. Etc. Basically, pushing too hard could lead to causing the very emotional reprecussions you're hoping to avoid.

ora_43

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 4:21 pm

BTW just reread the original post -
I agree with previous posters that there pretty much has to be a psychological component to this, with the behavior you describe of her not urinating the whole time she's on the toilet, then wetting her underwear. Maybe in part due to the extreme attempts to get her to stop.

Have you spoken to a child psychologist about this? A doctor or even a "parenting expert" can't rule out a psychological component.

Personally I wouldn't think a child psychologist is necessary, but if you're determined to take action I think that (after speaking to her teachers/counselors) it would be the natural next step.

Kayza

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 7:05 pm

amother wrote:

op here
a)she is always dry all night

No proof there - there could be an issue with her body clock.

Quote:

b)she was perfectly dry from ages three to five

Only relevant if NOTHING WHATSOEVER changed in her environment.

Quote:

d)she proved that she IS able to control herself for a total of six days after I adopted this extreme approach

Not entirely - it may just mean that she can control herself with extreme difficulty.

The truth is, though, that I do think that it's far more likely that she has a psychological problem.

None of the above, and none of the rest of the stuff you mention in the rest of your post provides the least bit of evidence that the child does not have a psychological issue of which you are not aware. The fact that the pediatrician does not realize this is not impressive, to say the least.

Quote:

Oh, and for whoever asked, since we embarked on this intensive program of get-rid-of-wetting-problem, she and I check her underwear together every night, so she can get positive reinforcement for doing well, or the promised consequence if not.

Why? Why can't she get positive reinforcement and negative consequences without inspecting her underwear for "little spots"?

I really have to question what your real issue is here.

Just fyi, what happened to your daughter that day is quite common.

Last edited by Kayza on Wed, Jul 06 2011, 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

Kayza

Wed, Jul 06 2011, 7:13 pm

amother wrote:

It doesn't seem to have occurred to you or your parenting expert that some of the tactics you are using at this point are just as likely to have serious long term effects on her.