Welcome to THE coolest Frum fashion and lifestyle blog!

justcallmeima

Mon, Jun 13 2011, 5:57 pm

I don't know if it makes any difference, but I just checked out your blog and I for one LOVE it. You will always find people who will scoff, but I appreciate knowing that in the fashion world it's not like totally ridiculous to wear a long sleeved t shirt under a topless dress!!! That was very helpful to me! I work in the non jewish world and I need to look "normal" while doing my best to adhere to the letter as well as the spirit of the law.

I also second (third? fourth?) the motion to show some plus sized fashion. I wholeheartedly agree with you that I should be working out and eating right (maybe you could blog about that too?) but in the meantime, I'm a size 16 and I need to know what to wear now!

Thanks and kol hakavod!!
Smile

penguin

Mon, Jun 13 2011, 7:27 pm

Quote:

a long sleeved t shirt under a topless dress

(Is there an emoticon for puke?)

Honey, do you want everyone to wonder how you would look without the long-sleeved tshirt? Because that's what's going to happen!

Ditto for the "lingerie" style where your top is all lace as if nothing underneath, oh, wait, there's a beige shell, phew... or the bodice comes up like a strapless gown (oh, I hope that's what you meant above, that's what I was thinking, because the alternative is too awful to contemplate....) and then there's a bra-shaped border. Let's just all wear our most alluring lingerie with a shell underneath, whyever not?

As to the Kosher Street outfits, I thought them quite dignified if you just get rid of the shoes, which, in my opinion, make both outfits look horrid. Also the skirt in the beige suit is showing just a tad of knee, fine if your posek allows.... just make sure he can get your kids into a school of your choice...

sharonlangert

Mon, Jun 13 2011, 9:06 pm

Hey everyone I haven't been here in a while and it's nice to see the conversation is still going on. I actually like and appreciate hearing everyone's opinions...Hashem made each one of us different and individual and if we can all try to accept each other with all of our differences than that would be great! I just want to reiterate AGAIN that I should not have posted this as a tznius blog (although for someone who is slightly more 'modern', exposed to the outside world and exposed to the fashion world, IMO it is definitely a tznius version of modern fashion). Let's face it...no matter how you personally feel, girls and women today are dressing more and more like this and let's at least keep the hope alive that stylish Jewish woman will still want to keep up bounderies. Unless you live in a chasidishe community or perhaps in charedi Israel, you know these women in the pencil skirts, sequins, wedge heels etc still look like modest frum women against your basic non Jewish woman. They can definitely be spotted as more refined and if any of you don't approve just know that that is VERY black and white thinking and there are many levels. Let's try to encourage women to remain true to their heritage no matter what level they may be on.

I would also like to comment about the woman who asked if I would I go to a Rav the way I dress. Well, yes. I actually went to Rebbitzen Kanievsky and dressed just the way I do. She was so loving and accepting and gave me hugs and brochos. No judgments there! When I see Rebbitzen Kotler in Lakewood she is also so warm, friendly and loving and I have never gotten a mussar shmooz from her. The only time I got in trouble was when my school called me to tell me my neighbor had called the school to complain about me cuz I went outside to say bye to my kids in the morning without socks!! Now what is worse? That loshon horah or me not wearing socks to say bye to my kids on my front lawn?? Midos ladies!!! Derech Eretz Kadma L'Torah. The damage done by this type of judgmentalism, nosiness and loshon horah is beyond words!

My blog is for inspirational purposes if you are interested in that type of thing. It's fine if it's not for you.
If you do like it and you may be expecting, I just posted on maternity style. You may or may not love it but either way that's ok. I love you all!
Check it out:
http://www.fashion-isha.com/20......html

Shopmiami49

Mon, Jun 13 2011, 11:41 pm

sharonlangert wrote:

My concern with this is that innocent/ignorant/new to tznius people may be "inspired" to wear clothing that is shown about as tznius/modest/ok, when really, a lot of outfits on your blog are in fact not.

amother

Tue, Jun 14 2011, 5:12 am

sharonlangert wrote:

Let's face it...no matter how you personally feel, girls and women today are dressing more and more like this and let's at least keep the hope alive that stylish Jewish woman will still want to keep up bounderies. you know these women in the pencil skirts, sequins, wedge heels etc still look like modest frum women against your basic non Jewish woman. They can definitely be spotted as more refinedl

But Tznius is a Mitzvah. It is not about how a woman personally feels or about bounderies.... it is Halachah and we dont get a choice on how we personally wish to follow it.

When one wears anything that draws attention to herself such as tight clothing, or "pencil skirts, sequins (more than a minimum etc), wedge heels" those are all defeating the point of Tznius.

shlomitsmum

Tue, Jun 14 2011, 6:29 am

amother wrote:

sharonlangert wrote:

I think you should stop beating up a "dead horse " as amother....Blog not for you? just SKIP IT,I'm sure sharon is not trying to "corrupt" anyone.

I also think arguments and debates are better when done openly instead of hiding behind amother.

JUST LET IT GO

yummymummy

Tue, Jun 14 2011, 9:24 am

sharonlangert wrote:

wow! I like your attitude and outlook just as much, if not more, than your fashion style. Very Happy

PinkFridge

Tue, Jun 14 2011, 9:47 am

sharonlangert wrote:

Just focusing on this last sentence as a general concept: Some years ago - and I have a crummy memory but this made a roshem - I heard a tape of an Agudah convention and IIRC Rabbi Nosson Scherman stressing that while yes, we are miles ahead of the rest of the world, if we measure ourselves solely [/I]against the rest of the world vs. who we can become[I], well, this isn't the best barometer.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking how much better things might be, and especially when it comes to dealing with our kids, who are faced with so much and yet are making conscious decisions that are so much better than they could be, or kids their age are making, they deserve tremendous endorsement and building up. I'm all for building up as much as possible. In fact, I have to dig this up and cut it out and put it on my fridge because I didn't see it myself, my new favorite quote was one in Mishpacha, attributed to Rav Gershon Edelstein, shlit"a, who said that in the past chinuch operated on the principle of "s'mol doche v'yamin mekareves." Now we have to be mekarev with both hands.

As the grownups here, we have to ask ourselves if we are on the road to being who we can be. Now I don't want to talk about tznius, because when people limit it to the physical details they take the burka/Stepford fork in the road, and I'm not heading there. I also don't have the body to have certain options so these aren't my decisions (some might say, nisyonos, but I'm not going there either.). (Though yes, I'm about the same size as that beautiful girl from Teaneck.) I'm just throwing this out as a general approach to life.

imaima

Tue, Jun 14 2011, 10:58 am

amother wrote:

sharonlangert wrote:

If we follow your logic, then a tzniyusdik woman should wear a basic t-shirt and baggy jeans. This way she will draw less attention to herself, than when she is wearing a long skirt with tights and all covered up on top (with 2 layers, if possible) in the summer heat.

amother

Tue, Jun 14 2011, 11:19 am

Quote:

I actually went to Rebbitzen Kanievsky and dressed just the way I do. She was so loving and accepting and gave me hugs and brochos. No judgments there! When I see Rebbitzen Kotler in Lakewood she is also so warm, friendly and loving and I have never gotten a mussar shmooz from her.

Okay, this is interesting to me. I consider myself very careful as far as tznius, but I still think twice about what I wear when I expect to meet someone like Rebbetzin Kotler shetichyeh.

If you don't think twice, clearly, you're very confident about yourself, and/or you have rationalized to yourself that, although you know many Rabbonim have said the women in their kehillos should do X or Y, this does not apply to you (because clearly your Rabbi says A or B).

And so, even if you know that in Bnei Brak they are particular on X plus, it's fine to go there just as you would go anywhere.

I wonder, though, if you've ever thought of asking Rebbetzin Kotler what she thinks about a particular style or item of clothing (e.g. some of the things being discussed here). Please don't make a common mistake - the fact that someone is warm & friendly, loving and accepting, does not mean they approve of everything you do. They may feel it's wonderful for you, for where you're coming from, and admire you for having reached your current level.

But if you honestly asked for their candid opinion e.g. do you think I should lengthen this skirt, should I buy this top a size bigger, should I try to find smaller heels next time I buy shoes etc., should I cut this sheitel a bit shorter, you might be surprised at the response.

Yes, people may refrain from giving mussar if they don't think you are ready to hear it. They may accept you as a person, and feel that your middos, chesed etc are wonderful. That doesn't mean they wouldn't love to give you mussar or constructive advice about your mode of dress, IF they thought you were ready to hear it and accept it.

My DD had a friend over yesterday. The girl knows DD's father is a Rosh Yeshiva. She came in thongs (no stockings, obviously), and when she sat down, her knees (and more) were not covered.

Well, DH (RY) walked in and asked me, quietly, why I don't say something to this girl. I told him she knows where she is, and she knows what we expect (she went to a Bais Yaakov high school and seminary). I therefore don't know that there is anything I could say that would be accepted correctly, so I shmuzed with her, and was very warm & friendly. Am I happy she is sitting in my living room with bare knees & legs? No, but I hope one day she will grow enough to realize that, at least, when you go to someone's house, or town, you should be respectful of their standards. Meanwhile, I hope that by being warm & friendly to her, I help her have a positive feeling about people who have more stringent standards of dress, and that she does not perceive me as judgemental. And I really don't judge her - or anyone.

The accounting department is upstairs!

I try to look at everyone as a wonderful person who is probably way better than me in many areas. I am just sad that some people don't realize how their dress is detracting from their spiritual beauty.

Oh, and by the way, DD came home from school with the latest outrage (in my opinion) - a four inch ruler card for checking your skirt length. I told her her skirt looks too short to me. It's a pleated skirt & I think it just looks wrong at four inches, so measure me no measures! Use your brains, please, and see if something looks fine and aidel or not!

Seraph

Tue, Jun 14 2011, 12:13 pm

I won't be anon, but all those that don't have an issue with the "tznius" portrayed on this blog, do you think there is such a thing as following the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law in dress? If so, what types of dress would fit under that category, in your opinion?
Have you ever heard the term "Hot Chani" and do you think people that dress in the "Hot Chani" look are totally tznius?

So many times, I've seen people walk around chareidi tops where I could tell their bra size the second I saw them, and I saw much more of their form and body than I'd want to see, and they drew stares whenever they walked... and then I saw secular people wearing pants, not covering their hair, and a regular not particularly tznius shirt... and thought that the secular people looked more tzanua than the chareidi ladies I saw. And it made me sad that these first people so obviously missed the point.

momosix

Tue, Jun 14 2011, 3:46 pm

The implication that one would dress differently when going to see a Rav or Rebbetzin, is correct. However, the broader point is that one dresses differently in different situations. I don't wear what I wear to a wedding to the gym.

In addition, I don't think its appropriate to show up in front of a Rav or Rebbetzin in a snood (if you wear shaitels) or a long shapeless skirt, no matter how tzanuah they may be. In my eyes, these people are Jewish royalty and I would dress as if I were visiting, L'havdil, the President and First Lady or the Queen of England.

In addition, I am sensitive to their heightened spirituality and would do everything I could to make them feel comfortable. Including dressing in a way that I felt they would find appropriate, which is by no means an admission that I think wearing a pencil skirt or heels is Assur (even if I would not wear it to go see them).