Pay the Cred Cards or Send Kids to Camp?

Tamiri

Fri, Mar 19 2010, 6:58 am

Tova wrote:

Believe me, my credentials are not impressive. And I would like to be called by my (screen)name and not by my profession (in the post I took issue with). My profession is not my identity. I just mention it in context.

I never advocated going into debt. Saying that $10K is not terrible or massive does not mean I advocate going into debt. The OP was already in debt when she posted.

Okay. To my understanding, OP was looking for advice. She gave the parameters and even tugged a bit at our heartstrings. I think that the vast majority of the responders suggested OP pay down the debt, as fast as possible, even at the expense of her children being denied the summer camp. And then, it seemed to me, you used your knowledge as a professional who crunches numbers to, well, profess that $10K may not be so bad. I was shocked when I read that, hence my reaction. I thought you put your profession in there to give a "gushpanka", stamp of approval, to a struggling family carrying such massive debt. If that was not your intention, then I apologize for bringing the CPA business into the equation. So then why DID you mention it? Just curious.
Sholem?

shalhevet

Fri, Mar 19 2010, 7:10 am

mandksima wrote:

prettyone wrote:

mandksima wrote:

Wow, I can't believe people even consider luxuries they can't afford. If you owe someone money, don't you even have a halachic responsibilty to pay it back before spending elsewhere? You're not talking paying back credit cards vs. buying food or paying utility bills.

What did kids do before camp? Go back to the basics and get out of debt. If you are considering such a luxury as a necessity then I assume you're spending a lot of money elsewhere that you think your kids also really need like matching outfits or expensive dinners or pizzas or whatever. I would go over your budget and see where you can skim to maybe afford a few extras for the summer so the kids won't miss camp.

the OP asked a sincere question and everyone else here was able to respond nicely and civilly but you have to go and make all sorts of assumtions about her without even knowing anything.

FYI- credit card companies are not gemachs. They make tons of money from pple who pay their debt out slowly. There is nothing irresponsible about that. The OP said she would like to pay it much faster. she never said she wasnt going to pay. There is no halacha that says when you have to pay off debt so dont make things up.

and to the OP- I think you should pay the credit cards and forego camp this year as well. Youll be alot less stressed the rest of the year.

I sincerely didn't mean to sound nasty, just honest. I can't fathom those that would consider not paying debt back before spending on extras. My assumption was based on the ability to ask the question, that's all. Maybe many people think this is perfectly normal, I guess I run in different circles. Sorry if it sounded mean.

I never said she wasn't going to ever pay and I never said that WAS the halacha, it was a question I asked. I just asked my brother sitting here and he says there's no halacha but it is irresponsible IMO. I guess I was reading too much into it as there seems to be so many posts here lately that talk about credit card debt getting out of hand. I could understand mothers wanting their kids occupied during the day as I'd go nuts with mine home all day as well but if I owed money that was accruing interest...whatever, you're right, I don't wish to judge anyone else. Sorry, OP.

No, mandksima, you were right - it is a halachic obligation to pay back debts. Some rabbonim pasken a person shouldn't give tzedaka (depending on individual circumstances) if they have debt to pay off. There is a pasuk saying something like a person who borrows and doesn't pay back is something uncomplimentary. Also, a heter iska is only really okay under certain conditions, like buying for a business or property. If you buy food and other consumables with borrowed money from a heter iska it's a halachic stretch AFAIK.

OP, I say work in reverse.

Pay off the debt this year, and over the next year save up the money for camp. You were able to do so? That means you budgeted for it. Didn't manage to? That means it's beyond your budget and if you would have done it ahead you would have gone into more debt.

benchwarmer

Mon, May 03 2010, 3:19 pm

You already received a lot of solid advice so I'm just here to echo the team I support which is to pay off the debt, you'll feel so much better. But this is coming from someone that only sends one of her three children to camp, and the one camp I send to is funded heavily bec. it's a special needs camp. I love the time the summer affords me of spending time with my kids and giving them a head start on next year's curriculum. I just like the relaxed pace of not having to deal with the morning routine and pick ups also, it's such a nice break from the rush rush of the school year pace. If/when my younger two boys wish to go to camp we'd consider it, but they seem to be homebodies like their mama Smile