Male coworker speaks like a trash can. how to respond?

sky

Thu, Dec 10 2009, 10:33 am

yy wrote:

I don't think it's right to go to a supervisor or HR, etc., if you haven't spoken directly to this guy first to see if you can put a stop to it. Why not just simply say, "Bob, I know most people wouldn't be bothered, but I don't like to listen to crude language. I'd really appreciate it if you wouldn't speak like that when you're in my work area. Also, I don't find comments about my personal life to be appropriate, so I'd like to stick to business in our conversations."

He might not change overnight, but he might try, and I think he will respect you for your standards and for being straightforward.

Then if the problems persist, you can go to the next level and report it, etc. At least he will have had a chance to fix it himself and save face.

I agree. I would definetly speak to him first before going to HR. Otherwise there could be bad feeling between the both of you and it could be difficult to work like that. If that didn't work I would first make an offhand comment to our supervisor/manager and only if that didn't work I would then go to HR. don't think it should be brought up as a religious issue at all. ( Especially if they ever meat a Jewish person who does use crass language, then you will just come across as a hypocrite.)

Where I work a lot of the men (thats all I work with) have horrible language but they've figured out (or at least most of them) that when I'm in on a meeting not to use that language, and for the most part they are good, and when they slip, they apologize. I In fact at work I think they stop more because I'm a female then anything else.

I once had an icident where a new employee kept on saying something I did not appreciate. I mentioned it to the HR head in an offhand joking way and she realized that it had to be taken care of, but did it discreetly and without to much fanfare so there was no hard feelings. It can be very hard to work in an environment where people feel badly toward each other, but it is still important to address the issue.

prettyone

Thu, Dec 10 2009, 4:49 pm

I guess my response was kind of lame. I prob should have blasted him. I was just so shocked and I am very non confrontational so I dont like things to be awkward.

We dont have an HR dept. Just the boss. too small for that. I think I will mention something to the boss if it happens again.

I just wanted to get a feel as to whether I was overreacting. I cant get all bent out of shape by every male comment that comes my way or I'll never be able to survive in this world. I guess that since most of you agree with me on this one then it really was reason to get mad.

amother

Thu, Dec 10 2009, 7:29 pm

I would not recommend going to HR unless you work for a really large company that can deal with this on a professional level. If it's small, it could just end up being a bunch of hock that never gets worked out and just leaves you uncomfortable whenever he's around you. I have a theory that there are those employees who demand respect, just from their personalities. They say things once, and they mean business. My sister is that way. She has the same problem in her office and all she has to say is, "pretend I'm here, ok?" and everyone just gets the point. There are those who would say that, get a laugh of a response, and everyone would carry on as if nothing was said. I think you have to know yourself to be able to judge whether a sharp, appropriate response will do the trick, or if this is something that has to be taken to another level.

leomom

Thu, Dec 10 2009, 10:29 pm

prettyone wrote:

You don't have to get mad. You just have to address it and ask him to respect your request.

It WILL happen again (until you communicate clearly to him), so don't go to the boss just yet. Right now it's annoying and upsetting but not dangerous (he's not stalking you), so invest a few days or a week in trying to deal directly with your coworker.

Now if his response to you is, "Oh yeah? What are you going to do, tell Mommy on me?" THEN go to the boss. Wink

YoMom

Thu, Dec 10 2009, 11:18 pm

Religion has zero to do with it. I work in a frum office and constantly reprimand people for their language. In my previous job, where I also worked with non jews, I reprimanded just the same. I always say, firmly but nicely, " Please do not use colorful language in front of me. I find it offensive. Thank you" I have never had a problem...if it happens again, I say "language...." They always respect me for it. I don't want to ignore it because I may become used to it, which I do not want. It is NOT ok! Good luck!

penguin

Fri, Dec 11 2009, 1:29 pm

OP, I in no way mean to offend you, so I hope you will not take this wrong. I would just like to point out another side of the issue.

Don't take this as blaming the victim - you should definitely not put up with it, but have you considered why he is not respectful to you (assuming he treats everyone equally).

Most times when a woman conducts herself in a very tzanua manner in both dress, speech & demeanor, a man picks up on it and acts respectfully. Of course, there can be exceptions where the man totally has no boundaries & would curse roundly in front of Sister Teresa. Can you picture this fellow doing that?

But unfortunately sometimes even frum women can come across somewhat alluring in their dress, makeup, jewelry, sheitel etc (and sometimes, unfortunately, I see women who are supposedly frum but look downright "prust") to the point that the man does not see a refined, "heichereh" sort of person before him, so he does not realize he is being offensive. He might not even realize she is religious, But I do think most "normal", foul-mouthed men, would be more respectful around a religious person.

I am not ch'v saying you are in the category described. Only that if you think there is anything somewhat "attracting" (vs. attractive) in the way you present yourself, you might consider toning it down.

But, you should definitely say something like "I was not brought up to use or hear profanity and I'd appreciate it if you would respect my sensitivities when you talk to me."

And, if that does not work, I would go to the boss and tell him the same thing I.e. you would appreciate him convincing the Exploding anger

to be more respectful.

************
Just after I posted this a non-frum relative dropped by to give me some information I had asked her about (this has never happened before, & she could just as well have called). Two rather offensive things came out of her mouth (my kids were in the next room & I just hope they did not hear) and my husband said, remind me never to invite her to our house.

So I think I must apologize for what I wrote above. Although it was once true that people respected a person who conducted themselves with tznius, I think that people in the 'outside' world today have so lost their sensitivity that they don't even realize what is offensive. Therefore, there is nothing to do but educate them I.e.
"I know it may be hard for you to understand this, as books, tv & radio use those kind of words/discuss those kinds of topics all the time, but in my circles we don't and we find them offensive."

Last edited by penguin on Sun, Dec 13 2009, 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

prettyone

Mon, Dec 14 2009, 12:39 pm

greenfire wrote:

you can't fix, control or change anybody but yourself

so he was rude - you're pregnant and he "knows how that came about" - I think we all do - it's part of nature ...

personally if somebody told me how to talk I would probably curse a little more ... Twisted Evil

btw - I say שעשני אשה ... and I curse too !!! Mr. Green

yes we all know how it came about but do we go around saying that to pregnant women?

you know that it is discusting behavior and you are trying to justify it for no other reason than to be controversial.

and why is asking someone politely and calmly and non attacking to stop using four letter words in front of them reason to curse more? it sounds like you have a real chip on your shoulder and take every comment or request as a personal vendetta against you.

greenfire

Mon, Dec 14 2009, 12:45 pm

prettyone wrote:

you know that it is discusting behavior and you are trying to justify it for no other reason than to be controversial.

on the contrary - I said he was rude - but you're not going to change him so considering it's part of nature it would be my way of putting him off by saying "yes it's part of nature" to show we all know and he's just an idiot

prettyone wrote:

and why is asking someone politely and calmly and non attacking to stop using four letter words in front of them reason to curse more? it sounds like you have a real chip on your shoulder and take every comment or request as a personal vendetta against you.

I have no chips ... but I do curse and just being honest ... the minute someone says don't curse - I would say %^&*, $%#@, %$#^&, twisted:

freidasima

Mon, Dec 14 2009, 1:08 pm

Ladies, chill.
First I'm with Ruchel.
Penguin I'm so glad you took it back because I was about to scream from anger.
Green there is a world of difference between using expletives and the comment to a pregnant woman about how she got that way.

Look, I've been the butt of someone like that in the past. You can't look frummer than me and even when I was "courting" I wasn't giving any signals...this guy would start up with a lamppost if it had something that looked like a skirt on...anyhow his language was filthy and his innuendoes were even worse, it was years ago when I was younger and working in a place where I was the only frum woman and there were very few women in general. Nothing helped, in those days there were no "harrasment" rules, and the supervisor was buddy-buddy with this guy.

What did eventually help was using the religion card. Yes, it's values YY and not religion, I agree, but somehow everyone feels that they have "values" but not everyone is that "religious". So when I said, "look mister, I'm really religious here and this kind of talk is against my beliefs (and he was Jewish of course, this was in EY) so please don't talk to me about anything but work, and when you do, keep it brief and please never use this language around me"....he got the hint. It didn't stop him from making suggestive comments about me to other workers as he had done about them to me, but at least I didn't have to hear him in my cubicle....

prettyone

Mon, Dec 14 2009, 1:27 pm

greenfire wrote:

prettyone wrote:

greenfire wrote:

I have no chips ... but I do curse and just being honest ... the minute someone says don't curse - I would say %^&*, $%#@, %$#^& ... Twisted Evil

thats very immature

perhaps to you it is ... however, to me it would be as if someone were trying to control me ... and well that would just be my way of saying you can't ... What

it is not controllong you but asking you nicely to refrain from speaking that way in front of them. when you are out of earshot say whatever you want. just because you want to curse and it is a free country doesnt mean you HAVE to subject everyone to your foul language. basic decency is that if something bothers someone and you know it so try to refrain from that activity in front of them. where is the control factor in that situation? why would you go out of your way to make someone uncomfortable?

greenfire

Mon, Dec 14 2009, 1:29 pm

prettyone wrote:

greenfire wrote:

perhaps to you it is ... however, to me it would be as if someone were trying to control me ... and well that would just be my way of saying you can't ... What

quite frankly I'm not going to change myself for you or anybody else Exclamation