The Grey Lines (Binah Serial by EGSchwartz)

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seeker

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 9:30 pm

Doesn't feel hypocritical to me.
The reason why it's different that she's Reform is because otherwise you might argue that the story seems to condone flirtatious (?) behavior by having a protagonist do it. But if you write about someone openly not frum doing something that frum people would not condone, it doesn't say anything.
And the reason it is different than going to the public library is because the romance novels in the public library are mostly not clean at all. Not sure what your difficulty is with that... unless you've never actually browsed the public library yourself, particularly the YA and romance sections. They do not resemble The Grey Lines one bit.

How is Caro's activity all that different than "kosher" shidduch angst?

amother

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 10:08 pm

well I don't read too much jewish lit, b/c unfortunately a lot of it is awful. But yes I do remember reading one book with a shidduch plot, and I did think it was a bit much for a frum story. But the difference is, it wasn't published in a "yeshivish" magazine. But yes you're right, some of that stuff is pushing it also. When it comes to the library, I stay away from Young adult now, I learned my lesson - yes some of that stuff is totally inappropriate. But there are some wonderful novels out there, I've always particularly loved civil war era, without anything terrible, maybe a touch here or there, not one hundred percent kosher. But I'm considered pushing "modern" for appreciating those books, yet when a novel just like it shows up in Binah, than people don't consider it a problem. So, I honestly don't know what's appropriate or not anymore. That's why I was curious to hear what other people think.

Scotty

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 10:18 pm

I kind of debated whether to drop my two cents into this conversational bucket. Pointing out story bones kind of ruins all the fun, and I really, really try very hard to maintain complete silence about anything that's not been printed on the page already so as not to ruin each reader's experience. That being said, however, I think this is a pretty important conversation, so without being to spoiler-y I hope you'll forgive if I point out that I think that two very important details seem to be overlooked in this conversation: that Caro's mother is present throughout (and encouraging of) her discussions with Lieutenant Lazarus, while her father actively encouraged, and assisted her in, maintaining a correspondence with Wolf Adler.

This is not a "romance novel" so much as an exploration of where Caro wants to end up, both religiously and personally, for the rest of her life: with Mother's candidate or Father's? (These candidates, of course, represent her parents' mindset regarding their choice to Reform in a nutshell: Mother, with fierce vindication; Father, with regret that nevertheless is not strong enough to be acted upon short of encouraging his daughter to reach out for the education to perhaps make a different choice than he did.)

Of course, like any novel, these choices are dramatized, and presented as any other shidduch situation in any novel might. But Caro's nascent juxtaposition of the religious points of view as personified by Lieutenant Lazarus vs. Wolf Adler is not romantic so much as it is spiritual (or cerebral, at this point). This may seem out of the box for today's day and age, when we expect marriages to be conducted within the excellent framework of shidduch dates or b'shows, but in actuality Caro's experience is not much different in terms of parental supervision and the overall direction of her perceptions.

Anyhow, sorry again if I've ruined the experience - not looking into the makings of sausages, and all that. Hope you don't mind.

Thank you again for reading and discussing! It's so exciting to hear others share this world as it unfolds!!

:-)

rise above

Thu, Jan 16 2014, 8:56 am

It is actually this "intellectual romantic" angle of the story that I find so captivating, and I don't think there is anything wrong hashkafically with hashing out conversations between different genders as long as the content is appropriate, which in this case, it is.

IMHO, the ultimate religious "romance" novel is "Sun inside rain" where there is this same dynamic of emotions but also based on intellectual/spiritual meetings of the mind and soul as opposed to attraction, lustfullness or anything else.
I actually think books like those and serials like these are so well received, and do a great service, because it recognizes this element in all of us that because there is a fine line of "kosher" here is not adequately expressed, and it is beauty. I am so glad to have this to turn to instead of Pride and Prejudice" when I need a healthy dose of beautiful romanticism drawn together by spiritual/intellectual experiences and conversations.

As with all writing, there is the "to each his own element" in terms of style and different styles may make us uncomfortable and because as religious Jews we may associate discomfort with inappropriate I think that angle needs to be discussed as well. Personally, I dislike violence and that kind of criminal action. So if I read any of the (dozens) of Frum novels that include spy rings, and car jacking's and killing and who knows what else I feel uncomfortable because I don't go for that. So I can then go on a soap opera of "maybe this isn't appropriate for Frum literature- why are we advocating, or even discussing, let alone highlighting violence!" but the honest truth in inside me is that this isn't about shita's and hashkafos, this is about my personal preferences in style.
I think it may be the same here- as long as the story was written in tahara and was reviewed by the (esteemed) editors, I don't have to allow my personal style preferences to dictate if it is haskafikally permissible to "eavesdrop" on kosher romance.

amother

Thu, Jan 16 2014, 9:43 am

Hi Scotty, I take it you're the author? I do think you are a very talented writer, and your plots are great. I enjoy reading this type of work, I'm just surprised that Binah with all of their rebbetzin's and lakewood and bork park readership, would publish this kind of stuff. Not a put-down to you Chas v' Shalom! I just had never realized that this was acceptable in the yeshivish community. I do see your point that the parents are involved.
Happy writing!

amother

Sat, Jan 18 2014, 4:38 pm

Hey Scotty,
Seriously...who are you kidding that this is not a romance?
Caro is practically salivating for the Bavarian's letters (since when did she become SUCH an intellectual?) and Lt. Lazarus is obviously quite smitten with her.

The whole novel revolves around the relationship between Caro and one man (well two now, actually).

If, in the end, Caro doesn't marry either of these lovely guys I guess you could say, at a pinch, that this is not a love story. But if she does, then sorry...this is a (frum) romance novel.

Not that I mind. Doesn't matter to me in the slightest...I'm actually quite enjoying it. But to say that this story is only an intellectual "meeting of the minds" is far out, IMHO.

She'll probably end up marrying that one who disappeared months ago...the one with the lergy/ pox or whatever it was! LOL.

deena19k

Sat, Jan 18 2014, 5:49 pm

Amother, are you for real? Seriously? Do me a favor and relax about the whole romance thing, ok?

amother

Sat, Jan 18 2014, 7:09 pm

I'm the first amother. The most recent post wasn't from me. But now I see that I'm not the only one!! anyway, like I said I was curious to see what others think, and it is interesting so see other people's reactions to this story.

Mama Bear

Sat, Jan 18 2014, 9:16 pm

I'm really loving it. The world lacks frum romance novels. Scotty, do me a fave, when youre done with this serial, write a few frum romance novels Very Happy

. Youre so good at it! I'm loving this! Smile

willow

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 10:18 am

I am LOVING this serial. It feels like real honest historical fiction without all the Dumbed downness Jewish books have. The love part is part of the authenticity.

willow

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 10:20 am

I beg you not to change it and make it sterile of emotions of the hearts which are part of every life story.

cbsp

Wed, Feb 05 2014, 9:19 pm

To Scotty:
I'm enjoying the serial as I enjoyed all your other works (I think the first one I read was the Chanukah novella. Was that ever published?)

Just read this week's installment and I gotta ask - exsanguinated??? There were vampires there????

Very Happy

Zehava

Wed, Feb 05 2014, 10:08 pm

Shortchanged had plenty of historically accurate romance. Loved it.

supermama2

Wed, Feb 12 2014, 2:30 pm

Oh boy...this last issue leaves on on the edge Very Happy

BTW is it "CAR-O" or "CARE-O"...It's been bothering me. Confused

Chayalle

Wed, Feb 12 2014, 4:21 pm

supermama2 wrote:

Oh boy...this last issue leaves on on the edge Very Happy

BTW is it "CAR-O" or "CARE-O"...It's been bothering me. Confused

Kayro. IIRC There was a chapter where one of the boys called her that, and she spelled it phonetically there.

Mom3SV

Mon, Mar 03 2014, 10:02 am

Nooooo! I literally gasped when I read this week's intro...

boysrus

Mon, Mar 03 2014, 10:05 am

colormom, can you please fill in those of us who can no longer afford our subscription yet still want to know what happens in teh story? please? maybe you can 'hide' it with a spoiler alert, for those who dont want to see. I am now about four issues behind and am really wondering what is going on over there!

Mom3SV

Mon, Mar 03 2014, 10:08 am

boysrus wrote:

I have a subscription to Binah so I get it on Monday morning. Maybe the other readers want to see it first?
Mamabear, you're the writer here. Would you mind filling in boysrus after you've read this week's installment?

boysrus

Mon, Mar 03 2014, 12:44 pm

Thanks colormom, I am waiting with bated breath! You cuold do it as a spoiler alert so that people have the choice to read or not to read it...

seeker

Mon, Mar 03 2014, 12:50 pm

This week's installment was excellent. I want to thank the author for not leaving a certain thread hanging until next week. I know she often has fun with suspense but this was well-played.

I will not spoil for those who have more self control than I do and don't read it while the ink is still wet. But it was really great.

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