Is it appropriate or not?

amother

Sat, May 04 2024, 6:17 pm

I am used to the fact that in frum society, people try to adhere at least minimally to the rules of shmirat halashon.
Of course, many people are very strict about them, but the majority know at least not to get into the kishkes of another person in every juicy detail like non-Jews often do.
It is also common to tell stories and omit names for this sake.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Anyway I had an agreement with a group of friends to meet at a kidush in the shul to catch up.
When I got there, one of the friends didn’t make it. Others did. There was a certain lady there with whom I always have clashes whenever we discuss some things. Today was no exception. I left with a sour aftertaste.

After the shabbos I wrote to my friends that as much as I miss them, I keep having clashes with someone at the kiddush and I have to reconsider going there.
I didn’t want to say the name of the lady.
The friend who missed the kiddush kept asking who it was. I ignored it once and twice. I really didn’t want to write the name. The friend insisted.
Am I right to feel annoyed? I don’t think it’s a social norm to pry out these details from others. The name of the lady was not the yikar of what I was saying at all.

Comptroller

Sat, May 04 2024, 6:29 pm

I think, as a general rule, it is not a good idea to say something negative about a person within a small group without saying exactly who is meant. This is no way to avoid "speaking lashon hara", because in this case you throw a suspicion on the whole group, and it would be less lashon hara to say precisely who you mean, so that at least the others won't be suspected.

Omitting the name is OK if you are speaking about someone the other person does not know, but not in the situation you describe.

Mind you, even if you think the other person doesn't know who you are talking about, you would be surprised how easy it can be to find out.

amother

Jean

Sat, May 04 2024, 9:55 pm

A few thoughts are that

You didn't have to share that at all, why the need to warn your group a week before next shabbos (which can imply you want your friends "help" either to make peace or prevent this issue)

Thats why I would assume she was insisting so she can help resolve it

You could just respond instead of ignore, saying its not important who and I prefer/choose not to share who it was

Also why not just not engage with that women more than a passing good shabbos as you walk by her, turn and talk to someone else?

amother

Papaya

Sat, May 04 2024, 10:01 pm

To me it seems like you are trying to gossip and/or stir up drama, but think you aren’t accountable for it because you are omitting the name. I think what you are doing is worse.

Don’t tempt people and bring out their yetzer hara, then get upset when they respond in a normal, yes, fashion. Them being curious about the person you are referring to is human nature. You baiting your friends in this conversation is not.

amother

Indigo

Sat, May 04 2024, 10:28 pm

Comptroller wrote:

Sorry, but that is not how halacha works.

WhatFor

Sun, May 05 2024, 7:29 am

amother OP wrote:

The question is is it okay to pry if it is clear that I won’t name the name.
My point was that I want to meet them in other circumstances and not at the kiddush.

I think you have unreasonable expectations. You wrote an inflammatory comment in a group message. It could be reasonable for someone in the group to assume that you wanted help with that issue, because why would you have mentioned it if you didn't want them to address it?

If you truly wanted to avoid drama, you could have just said you have a scheduling conflict or otherwise can't make that time anymore, but you hope to see them elsewhere. It should have been reasonably anticipated when you made such an inflammatory statement that people would ask questions.

amother

Cerise

Sun, May 05 2024, 7:36 am

amother OP wrote:

The question is is it okay to pry if it is clear that I won’t name the name.
My point was that I want to meet them in other circumstances and not at the kiddush.

We all got your question. Its just a very interesting question considering your behavior. Maybe its time for self-reflection rather than looking at what others r doing wrong

zaq

Sun, May 05 2024, 12:43 pm

There was no need to make the remark you did, which you should have known would stir up people's curiosity. According to the Chofetz Chaim, it's forbidden even to mention someone's name without any context if it will cause people to gossip about him. True, you mentioned no names, but you had to have known that people would ask. It's not as if they were asking you a personally intrusive question that most socially adept people wouldn't ask, like how often you and dh dtd or how much money you have in the bank. While it was quite wrong for your friend to keep noodging you to spill the beans, if you had been as truly concerned about lashon hara as you claim, you would have made some other excuse for staying away from the festivities.