Living in Israel, do you keep1 or 2 days Yom Tov

Elfrida

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 4:54 am

amother OP wrote:

I meant that in the time of Bais Hamikdash and when it is rebuilt iyh there will be only one day Yom Tov for everyone.

That's an interesting question. Obviously, we assume a situation where everyone has returned to Israel, in which case there would be one day Yom Tov, if we even keep Yom Tov in its current form.

But suppose there is some intermediate stage where not everyone has returned to the land? There were two days Yom Tov in chutz l'aretz during the times of the Beit haMikdash. When it is rebuilt, we will be able to reinstate Kiddush haChodesh. Initially the two days Yom Tov was due to issues in passing on the information as to when Rosh Chodesh had been declared. With modern communications we are unlikely to have similar issues.

On the other hand, we currently have a fixed calendar, and the is no doubt as to the dates of the chagim. Over the centuries, other reasons have been given for maintaining the second day on Yom Tov in chutz l'aretz. It will be interesting to see if they are still considered valid when we return to Kiddush haChodesh.

essie14

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 5:16 am

amother OP wrote:

1) I heard from people living here for many years, butbnever made Aliyah, that they keep 2 days because they plan to go back "one day". Their children are integrated in school system and culture. However, the parents "mind and heart" are in chutz lararz.

2)Yes, mostly in "English speaking" (mix) neighborhoods wherei lived when we first made Aliyah). Mainly those who see themselves as "chitznik" (outsider).

Everyone I know in situation 1 keeps one day because they "are here for now". Even if they think they will move back, they are integrated enough that they all got the psak to keep 1 day.
I have family and friends like this.
The only ones I know who keep 1 day are the couples who are really only here for a year and have definite plans to go back. Those couples who end up staying past one year all transition to keeping 1 day of chag.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 6:49 am

I don't understand your options.
Different poskim say different things about chutznikim in EY.
Rav Scheinberg paskened that you keep 2 days until you buy property in EY.
Rav Elyashiv paskened that if you feel you are here to stay, you keep 1 day, otherwise 2.
Rav Kook paskened that there is an issur melacha second day for people who are visiting but no chiyuv for the positive mitzvos hachag.
I know Chabad pasken that you keep acc to where you are for yomtov never mind if it is temporary or permanent.
Many dati leumi rabonim also pasken that if you are in EY you keep 1 day only.

We keep 1 day.
Nothing to do with what it was or what it will be. Simple halacha. We moved here with no intention of going back.

amother

Tomato

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 7:04 am

DrMom wrote:

Only in touristy areas are there a significant number of people celebrating 2 days of YT. It's business as usual for the rest of us. Esp since kids in public schools no longer have off on Isru Chag. Off to work now!

My kids don't have school isru chag. I do have work. I'm a drop glad my kids don't have school though. I need to settle them back into routine and no way I could've done that last night.

Isru chag Shavous really annoys me. I'm like just why? Sukkos also. Pesach is the one time when I feel like we need that extra day to get settled.

amother

Pear

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 7:05 am

I've been living here for years and only recently started keeping 1 day.
Many many people living here temporarily (for a couple of years- I know one here almost 10 years already!) that keep 2 days because they are planning on moving back.
There are also a lot of Rabbanim that tell people to keep 1.5 days if they aren't sure because it's a complicated psak. They are nervous about Bal Tosif and also about doing melacha on YT. Therefore the 1.5 day psak is that they can't do melacha the second day but it's not YT (no kiddush/YT davening etc)
And yes, I keep 1 day bc that was my psak not bc "it'll be like that when mashiach comes"

But yes, results are skewed because only 1 dayers can answer now:)

amother

Tomato

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 7:08 am

My rav holds if no concrete plan to move back then 1 day. We did that but then 6 weeks after we arrived, we decided we are here for good.

I don't understand the opinion of owning property. I am not so sure we ever will! The prices only go up and we can't afford it. We've been renting for 12 years. But we fully live here! We made aliya. We work here and all and are raising our family here.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 7:12 am

amother Tomato wrote:

If your kids are in BY or cheider I guess it's considered private schooling.
IMHO kids should have school on Isru chag, they have enough days off as it is now.

salt

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 7:13 am

amother Pear wrote:

Do they put on tefillin?

amother

Chestnut

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 7:33 am

amother Indigo wrote:

I'm wondering if I'm understanding this psak correctly. Is this true of someone who makes aliyah, becomes a citizen with no intention of ever going back? They'd only keep one day if they buy property? Lots of olim I know don't own property. It isn't because they plan to go back to chul, it's just that owning property isn't for everyone. Some buy once they're sure which neighborhood is for them, or when they find a house they like that's in their budget. And some people never buy. But especially if they don't own property anywhere else (and even if they do) they're 100% settled in Israel.

Or is this psak only for people who are *not* here permanently?

If Rav Scheinberg actually did hold the former, I wonder if he would still hold that way with today's real estate market.

amother

Chestnut

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 7:42 am

OP, I find this question kind of interesting. I wonder if you live in an area that attracts a lot of American kollel couples who are in Israel with the intention of it being temporary? Or if that's generally your social circle?

I live in a community of DL olim. We've had the occasional family come to live in our neighborhood for a sabbatical year or an Aliyah trial period. But most people I know move here as olim, with no intention of looking back. I don't know anyone who lives in Israel and keeps two days. There are minyanim in my area for second day, they are for tourists and students. For the most part I don't see people keeping Yom tov the second day, but when I do see them they stand out.

I don't experience anything like what you described in your OP.

amother

Winterberry

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 7:58 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

If your kids are in BY or cheider I guess it's considered private schooling.
IMHO kids should have school on Isru chag, they have enough days off as it is now.

I was under the impression that BY is public schooling. My girls do not have school today.

Shuly

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 9:02 am

I chose option 1 but as lymnok says, I keep one day because of halacha. When we realized we were going to live here permanently, we were told by our Rav to keep one day.

We have Chabad and Sefardi relatives who keep one day even if they come to visit.
Ashkenazim only keep one day if they live here permanently - and as was written, different poskim have different definitions of permanent.

I heard something very powerful in in a shiur by Rebetzin Rena Tarshish. During the Gulf War, some people got scared and went back to chu"l during the war and only returned to EY when the war was over. There were poskim who told them that they now have to keep two days of yom tov - even those who owned their homes in Israel! - because by running "home" when they were scared, they proved that they did not consider EY to be their home.

Rappel

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 10:09 am

Shuly wrote:

That's an interesting psak.

I know the chachamim of the gemara use a similar concept when determining if a seal is a land animal, or a sea animal: when it's in danger, where does it go for safety?

Maybe they drew it from the same concept?

Elfrida

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 10:19 am

Rappel wrote:

I heard the sane shiur (not necessarily at the same time) and that was the example that she gave to explain the psak.

mochamix18

Tue, Apr 30 2024, 11:37 am

I answered 1 but it’s not really true. I married my husband and made Aliyah 10 years ago who had made Aliyah 20 years before that. There are those American Hareidim who will keep 2 days the first year after Aliyah per their Rav. Since I married my husband who had already been Israeli for 20 years there was no such shaila for us