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-> Interesting Discussions
zaq
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Wed, May 04 2022, 5:44 pm
Amelia Bedelia wrote: | We Americans have no reason to confuse license, practice, and dependent. The other spellings are not used in American English. |
And yet we often see simcha invitations requesting the "honour" of our presence. It's not because folks can't spell, but because they're pretentious and think that spelling the British way is more elegant. Don't request the honour of my presence unless you like the colour of my dress, the flavour of my soup, my sense of humour, and my next-door neighbour.
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Amelia Bedelia
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Wed, May 04 2022, 5:59 pm
zaq wrote: | And yet we often see simcha invitations requesting the "honour" of our presence. It's not because folks can't spell, but because they're pretentious and think that spelling the British way is more elegant. Don't request the honour of my presence unless you like the colour of my dress, the flavour of my soup, my sense of humour, and my next-door neighbour. |
I agree. They definitely only spell it that way because they think it's more elegant
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Choirmistress
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Tue, May 10 2022, 8:57 am
Amelia Bedelia wrote:
We Americans have no reason to confuse license, practice, and dependent. The other spellings are not used in American English.
I have just looked up all three, and have discovered you are correct. What this says to me is that Americans are a) big on simplifying and streamlining spellings (e.g., removing the "u" from "our/ous" endings of words), or b) not concerned with distinguishing verbs from nouns; or c) both.
We Canadians, it seems, are more aware of "international" English than Americans are.
As a proofreader, I have become quite accustomed to coming across examples from all three varieties of English. The guidance I go by in proofing military writing is to keep the spelling of the nationality of the original author or his/her publisher.
I even had in my office a printable sheet's worth of comparisons that I labeled "ABC" (for American vs. British vs. Canadian). It also included different countries' terms for the same thing. Examples of American vs. British terms:
baby carriage/pram (short for "perambulator")
curb/kerb
(car) trunk/boot
garbage truck/rubbish lorry
(stocking) run/ladder
elevator/lift
apartment/flat
flashlight/electric torch
wrench/spanner
(What is this) for?/in aid of?
drug store/pharmacy or chemist('s shop)
chips/crisps
cookbook/cookery book
tire/tyre
plan/scheme (with no connotation of evil or nefarious; eg, workplace insurance scheme)
(playing) Peek-a-Boo/Peep-Bo
"thank you" OR "goodbye"/"ta" (esp. to toddler)
I'm sure to have forgotten plenty of other examples.
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singleagain
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Tue, May 10 2022, 9:20 am
I always understood that the removal of 'u' from words like colour v color is bc printing used to be charged by the letter so to save money certain letters were dropped form words
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missknowitall
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Tue, May 10 2022, 9:30 am
Choirmistress wrote: | A few more pet peeves:
"Being that/Seeing as (how)..." to mean "In view of [something happening]" or "In view of the fact that..." The first two are NOT proper English and are unacceptable in formal prose.
Excuse the repetition if I mentioned this one earlier, but "practice" and "practise" have the same noun vs. verb rule as "licence" vs. "license".
"If yes" and "If no" beside squares to be checked off on documents. Proper terms are "If so" and "If not".
Absence of "that" in a multiclause sentence. "That" should immediately precede a clause that could stand on its own as a complete thought and thus a grammatically correct sentence: "If I used a sentence this long, I would make sure that the second clause followed the word 'that'."
Misplacement of "that" in a compound sentence: "Are you trying to tell me just because he disagrees with you that he has no right to express his alternate opinion?" is totally incorrect. The "that" should obviously appear only before the word "just".
A comma instead of semicolon or end of sentence before the "however" that means "despite/notwithstanding this". The other "however" means "whichever way" and can sometimes correctly appear in the middle of a sentence with no semicolon or ended sentence.
"dependent" confused with "dependant". The first is an adjective, the second is a noun describing, usually, a family member.
"I could care less" as an expression of apathy. The proper expression is "I couldn't care less."
"criteria" or "phenomena" as a supposed singular. They are the PLURALS of "criterion" and "phenomenon".
"drop" to mean "go on sale". Where did this one even come from?
"different than" to mean "different from". Here's a simple test: "is different" is an exact synonym for "differs", right? So would you tell your teacher: "Your view of my mark on this exam simply differs than mine"?
Excuse this one if repetitive, too, but it is used so often that its correction bears repeating: "I really appreciate you doing this for me." OUCH! Possessive case before a gerund, people! Extreme example of the incorrect version: "Why does me pointing out this rule bother you?" Uh-huh. Now you see how ridiculous it is. Proper wording: "I really appreciate your doing this for me."
"be comprised of" to mean "comprise". "Comprise" means "be composed of". So does "be comprised of" mean "be being composed of of"?!
And finally, one to do with proper typography/orthography rather than grammar: I HATE it when people print or draw an UPPER CASE "I" but give it a dot! This is why I hate fonts that I call "case challenged": containing a dotted upper case "I". I think the best example is called Broadway or similar. (You can look it up. I think I shall do so myself and then edit this post if it needs it.)
Thank you all for your time and attention in reading the above. Now let's see if we can't spread a few good grammatical habits.
Regards, Choirmistress. |
It’s really hard to read anything written this way. You are supposed to break it down to paragraphs so it’s easy to read. Also most of it seems like fragments or run on sentences. I did try reading it but couldn’t get very far.
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Choirmistress
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Tue, May 10 2022, 9:32 am
It's quite possible, but this is news to me. It's understandable considering how type used to be set in metal by hand.
Walt Disney would save a few cents to a dollar or more per cel artist by having them reduce the number of "fingers" on his major characters. "How long does it take one of you to draw a finger?" "Oh, about two or three minutes." "Cut one off of Mickey, Donald, Minnie, Daisy, Goofy,...."
It also reminds me of having learned that Charles Dickens used to be paid by the word, so of course he would embellish, give more details, add descriptions, etc. Many of his novels were serialized in successive issues of newspapers or magazines.
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Choirmistress
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Tue, May 10 2022, 9:37 am
missknowitall wrote: | It’s really hard to read anything written this way. You are supposed to break it down to paragraphs so it’s easy to read. Also most of it seems like fragments or run on sentences. I did try reading it but couldn’t get very far. |
Hmm, now I'm the one confused. As far as I remember, I DID begin a new paragraph for each item!
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penguin
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Tue, May 31 2022, 7:30 pm
I can't tell you how many times I have seen these confused, most recently in an ad in a pretty professional magazine. I can only assume that nobody proofreads the ads!
formerly - adverb
At an earlier time; once. In time past, either in time immediately preceding or at any indefinite distance; of old; heretofore. at some time in the past
As in, Mrs. X was formerly employed at the famous sheitel macher Y.
formally - adverb
In a formal manner; essentially; characteristically; expressly; regularly; ceremoniously; precisely. In a formal manner. In accordance with official procedure.
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penguin
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 7:34 pm
What is with the word screamed? Or screamt?
(Someone on Quora says that the latter is the Shakespearian usage.)
I hear people saying SCRAYMT.
Um, no. It's 'ea' like in cream. Even if it's past tense.
Does it come from Yiddish? Or what?
Anyone else disturbed by this?
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penguin
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 7:36 pm
Maybe because "mean" becomes "meant" and "dream" becomes "dreamt"?
But then it would be pronounced "scremt" not SCRAYMT!
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Daliya
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:08 pm
I spilled it into the sink vs I poured it into the sink.
My sister-in-laws vs my sisters-in-law.
Gate vs fence.
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NechaMom
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:13 pm
DD says “firstable” instead of “first of all”. I correct her every time but she’s right back at it the next time she wants to say her list of reasons for anything.
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Woman of Valor
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:16 pm
hodeez wrote: | Defiantly instead of definitely
Axe instead of ask
Irregardless!! 🤦♀️🤦🤦♂️ |
Your second example is actually correct in African American English. It is considered a dialectal difference not an error.
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BrisketBoss
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:16 pm
NechaMom wrote: | DD says “firstable” instead of “first of all”. I correct her every time but she’s right back at it the next time she wants to say her list of reasons for anything. |
What if you tried NOT correcting her at all?
I can report that I never did the things my mom nagged me to do until I got some distance from her, then they made sense . I'm not positive, but I think that if she had stopped nagging, there would have been a similar effect after a while.
There's no way your DD simply forgets that it's 'first of all.'
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NechaMom
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:23 pm
BrisketBoss wrote: | What if you tried NOT correcting her at all?
I can report that I never did the things my mom nagged me to do until I got some distance from her, then they made sense . I'm not positive, but I think that if she had stopped nagging, there would have been a similar effect.
There's no way your DD simply forgets that it's 'first of all.' |
I do think she forgets. Why would she care to do it on purpose? I keep telling her that it’s 3 words. First-of-all. Then she repeats it correctly until the next time. It somehow doesn’t want to register in her brain that it’s not “firstable”. Are you saying if I won’t correct her at all she’ll just switch to the right words?
How does that logic work?
If I tried not correcting her she’d just finish her list and think firstable was indeed correct.
Last edited by NechaMom on Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BrisketBoss
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:28 pm
NechaMom wrote: | I do think she forgets. Why would she care to do it on purpose? I keep tell her that it’s 3 words. First-of-all. Then she repeats it correctly until the next time. It somehow doesn’t want to register in her brain that it’s not “firstable”. Are you saying if I won’t correct her at all she’ll just switch to the right words?
How does that logic work? |
So, she has demonstrated that she can say it correctly.
She hears the phrase. She knows what it sounds like.
Nevertheless, she keeps saying it her way.
They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
(Also, children don't acquire language through being corrected but by hearing the word modeled correctly in context. Some can use speech therapy, but they don't reach adulthood still saying 'firstable.')
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NechaMom
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:40 pm
BrisketBoss wrote: | So, she has demonstrated that she can say it correctly.
She hears the phrase. She knows what it sounds like.
Nevertheless, she keeps saying it her way.
They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
(Also, children don't acquire language through being corrected but by hearing the word modeled correctly in context. Some can use speech therapy, but they don't reach adulthood still saying 'firstable.') |
You’re right. I’m still nagging my kids every day not to fight, clean up after themselves, shower, not throw the sock/coat/briefcase on the floor. I guess I should just admit defeat and let them raise themselves.
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BrisketBoss
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:42 pm
NechaMom wrote: | You’re right. I’m still nagging my kids every day not to fight, clean up after themselves, shower, not throw the sock/coat/briefcase on the floor. I guess I should just admit defeat and let them raise themselves. |
So does it work when you nag? And if not, do you hope it will next time? If that is the case, it's time for something new.
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mandr
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:44 pm
Could of went.
Instead of could have gone.
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NechaMom
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Thu, Jan 19 2023, 8:48 pm
BrisketBoss wrote: | So does it work when you nag? And if not, do you hope it will next time? If that is the case, it's time for something new. |
Once again, it helps for that one time but not for the next day.
Indeed I do have to come up with some new method.
On a different thread though...
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