Clothes..... The how and Whys!!!!!

Tefila

Thu, Jan 13 2005, 11:30 pm

Why the Long Black Coat? By Yrachmiel Tilles

Question:

Why do very religious men wear long black garments only, even in summertime?

Answer

Black, scientifically, is the absence of color. Wearing black only indicates lack of concern for color and other dictates of fashion, and thus helps keep priorities straight. In old sociological terms: to be inner-directed rather than other-directed. Anyway, it certainly eliminates the pressure of deciding what to wear each morning!

Long garments are a sign of respect. Nowadays, most people wear them only at the fanciest of affairs. Some religious Jews wear them only on special occasions, such as Shabbat and the Festivals. Others feel that every moment is a special occasion, because at every moment one has to be constantly prepared for prayer, Torah study, etc.

Now, if there are good reasons for wearing long black garments (at least, you'll grant, in the minds of those that wear them), why should summertime with its higher temperatures make a difference? If you were invited to a formal affair or to an important meeting that you would wear a suit-and-tie or a long dress in the winter, if it were in the summer would you wear a tank-top and shorts instead?

"Aha!" you say. "My summer outfit would be made of much lighter material." Believe me, the thinnest cloth you will ever encounter is that black stuff draped over some of those very religious men. And if you say, "Well, white would be cooler still," my answer would be, "Maybe it is not the most important thing in life to be as cool as possible" (pun intended).

By the way, in this latter part of the question, about comfort in summer, I detect some chauvinism. You look for overdressed-for-summer religious people and see only men! What about the long sleeved, stockinged, and bewigged women?

Seriously: those long black coats you see on the men is at most a custom. For women, these matters are tied up with the laws of Tzniut (modesty of dress and behavior). Varying traditions and interpretations play a role too. Thus, the different "dress codes" traditionally adopted by different communities. But covering the hair (for married women) and the body (for all women and men) is a matter of Torah law.

Some women wear a wig because they feel it is ultra modest, as it securely hides every strand of their own hair. Others prefer scarves and the like because they feel wigs are too natural-looking and attractive, which is the very reason that yet another set of women prefer wigs to scarves. I guess from every perspective, wigs are the hottest items (again, pun intended). On the other hand, some women wear scarves or hats in a manner that allows some hair to show, relying on the authorities that permit such and not wanting to appear too extreme.

I once overheard a conversation where a girl in shorts asked a woman in stockings on a 90 degree day, "Aren't you hot?"

The latter shot back, "Aren't you hot?"

"Yes."

"Okay, so I’m a little hotter."

She didn't add, "But I don't care because it’s worth it," but you could hear it anyway.

The person who suffers most from heat is not the one with the heaviest clothes -- it's the one with nothing else to think about other than one's own comfort. Next time you get caught in a heat wave in Israel or New York, look at faces as well as clothes, and see who seems to be bearing up the best

Last edited by Tefila on Sat, Jan 15 2005, 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tefila

Thu, Jan 13 2005, 11:33 pm

So whats the difference in dress between Chassidim and non Chassidim in the frum world.
And why? Whats the reason behind it????

yehudis

Thu, Jan 13 2005, 11:43 pm

Interesting about black symbolizing lack of concern for color.

I know that sephardim traditionally wear white. And then I've seen people in Yerushalayim dressed in blue. Does anybody know why?

P.S. My husband wears a regular suit, so we're pretty boring Smile

rydys

Fri, Jan 14 2005, 6:34 am

Traditionally, Jews always wore long clothes/coats. The avos probably dressed like arabs bec. that is how everyone dressed in those days. I'm sure these issues came up in mitzrayim, too. Look at the pictures of the egyptians in history books--they barely wore anything, but the yidden stuck to their historical dress. Traditional sephardi dress is also long robes. In Europe (I believe it started in Germany) there were some Jews who felt it necessary to change to short jackets, and some rabonim gave a heter for this (I have to ask my husband who they were). I'm not saying that the bekesha is really traditional Jewish dress like the avos wore, but its length is more similar and wearing a short jacket was originally a heter.

As for black, the reason I heard was that it is a sign of aveilus for the beis hamikdash.

AweSumThenSum

Fri, Jan 14 2005, 2:30 pm

the title of this thread led me to believe that the content was about s/t entirely different. I though it was refering to how u can tell so much about a person's personality by the way they dress. I.e. goths, professional, etc...
guess I thunk wrong.
do u agree or disagree that, as much as clothes dont make the person, wearing certain clothes will somewhat prevent us from doing certain things. I.e. wearing ur peyos down will make u think twice about going into a bar, etc...

Rivka

Sat, Jan 15 2005, 7:30 pm

Actually I judge no one on the clothes they wear. You see these frummy looking guys long payos and shtreimels and the works and at home you don't know what they are like, wife beaters, child [filth] perves. So really it is only to make themselves look frum, do u think they know the reason to why they wear what they do? If they did they wouldn't be doing half the stuff, I have seen a guy all black garb etc in the train station checking up the magazines on the stop shelf and they aren't about cars or gardens either.
So the way I see it, don't be a hypocrit and only wear stuff for show, be who you are.

Tefila

Sun, Jan 16 2005, 1:59 pm

Said Rabbi Judah: A person should sell the roof-beams of his home to buy shoes for his feet (Shabbat 129a)

The robe [worn by the High Priest] atoned for bloodshed, the breeches atoned for lewdness, the turban made atonement for arrogance, the belt atoned for [impure] meditations of the heart, the breastplate atoned for neglect of civil laws, the apron atoned for idolatry, the cloak atoned for slander, and the crown, worn on the forehead, atoned for brazenness..

(Talmud, Zevachim 88b)

Debbie

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 3:41 pm

Rivka wrote:

I have only just come to these boards but I felt I had to respond to this message as a wife of a man who wears a shtreimel and the other clothing associated with chassidim. I found the post to be rather generalising,why pick on chasidim if there are bad people in the Jewish faith I am sure they come from all different backgrounds.
My husband doesn't wear his clothes to make himself look frum any more than we eat kosher or speak Yiddish to make ourselves look frum.
I'm sure that most of us don't know the reason for everything we wear but that's not really important,what is important is that we be less judgmental on others. and do our best to live a Torah life.
I am sorry that you saw a frum man looking at a distasteful magazine but that does not mean you should say the things you have about chassidim. If you must judge,judge the many not the few who get it wrong.

Tefila

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 4:50 pm

Quote:

am sorry that you saw a frum man looking at a distasteful magazine but that does not mean you should say the things you have about chassidim. If you must judge,judge the many not the few who get it wrong.

Debbie I totaly agree w/h you Exclamation

1stimer

Tue, Apr 05 2005, 2:20 am

rydys wrote:

and wearing a short jacket was originally a heter.

there is no halacha to wear a long jacket - you don't need a heter for something that isn't a halacha

1stimer

Tue, Apr 05 2005, 2:24 am

Last night I was at a lecture on faqs, geared to training ppl to go into kiruv, and this question came up, I.e. what's wrong with a blue shirt? why do all the religious ppl wear black?

the answer he gave: in the times of the talmud, talmidei chachamim wore white. the idea is to appear respectable, like a banker, esp. when davening before a king. But it is not a halacha, not even a minhag!

someone in the class said she knew some1 (a bt) who asked his rav this, his rav replied 'it's all a shtick' when he heard that he was able to becoem frum.

sarahd

Tue, Apr 05 2005, 3:18 am

1stimer wrote:

rydys wrote:

and wearing a short jacket was originally a heter.

there is no halacha to wear a long jacket - you don't need a heter for something that isn't a halacha

The heter was for changing something that was a minhag Yisroel kadosh. Jews always dressed distinctively and differently from non-Jews. If someone wanted to break with the Jewish way of dressing, he would need a heter for that. Same as if you wanted to change a minhag you would need a heter (and hatoras nedorim.)

Freilich - a very interesting explanation above.

Note: It is my firm belief that dressing Jewish (chassidish or litvish) is a big barrier to inappropriate behavior. There are reasons why people take off their yarmulkes when going into bad places.

Ozmom

Tue, Apr 05 2005, 4:26 am

Quote:

guess I thunk wrong

awesome can I add that to my vocab along with funcused? please?

Quote:

Note: It is my firm belief that dressing Jewish (chassidish or litvish) is a big barrier to inappropriate behavior. There are reasons why people take off their yarmulkes when going into bad places

sarahd you hit the nail on the head its not just your own belief its one of the reasons for the dress code.

Rivkah the element you described is within every society no one is imuned. Just because you know ppl who did that doesn't mean all people who dress that way do it. Unfortunately its a chilul hashem but don't you think that on the whole a yid who is dressed in a very obviously Jewish way will think twice b4 picking up a magazine or walking into the wrong place. thats the whole idea, its supposed to serve as a geder to bring them to behave respectfully.
my father my husband my brothers my uncles, all the men in my life dress that way and not one of them b"h fit into the element you described.
doesn't mean it doesn't exist but its connection with the way they dress is nonsense.
yes there are those that make themselves Look frum and hide behind the dress but they are the minority and it has nothing to do with the concept of how they dress. its just like with other things they stand out from the crowd. when something happens people gasp and are in shock and TALK about it a whole lot more than if the person was in jeans and a t-shirt so of course people who want to think will think that its more then just the odd nut here and there. These people have a problem, but it has nothing to do with all the other yiden that dress according to the same code.

Pearl

Tue, Apr 05 2005, 5:21 am

Quote:

[quote="Ozmom -awesome can I add that to my vocab along with funcused? please?quote]

LOL!!!

I didn't think that Rivka was generalizing an entire group. I didn't read it that way

but she does have a point about how attire represents some kind of behavior. unfortunately, we have a situation now, with a rav, but I can't say anything about that - lashon hara.....but let's just say that his attire doesn't comprise at all with his behavior Crying

sarahd

Tue, Apr 05 2005, 5:40 am

There have been stories of people indicted for crimes removing their beards before appearing in court, to avoid at least some chilul Hashem. It's a pity that many people don't realize the responsibility they have to show good behavior because they're identifiably Jewish/frum, and people will judge all Jews/frum people by their actions.

Pearl

Tue, Apr 05 2005, 5:56 am

Quote:

sarahd wrote:

It's a pity that many people don't realize the responsibility they have to show good behavior because they're identifiably Jewish/frum, and people will judge all Jews/frum people by their actions.

very true! and in the case I mentioned, it's his behaviour towards fellow Jews..... Crying