We ate Shabbos lunch w/o our sleepy-head guests! WWUD?

chen

Mon, Nov 27 2006, 8:27 am

I believe I would have done exactly as you did. What more could you have done? To force them to get up would have been mean, and would only have made their limited conversational skills vanish completely, but to make your family to wait for them would have been unreasonable and unnecessary.

mama247

Mon, Nov 27 2006, 10:05 am

Quote:

No the sem did not make the arrangements...another organization that sets up "on-the-fringe" boys/girls with places to stay called us up.

I just wanted to clarify with you, binah, before I get to worked up, were these girls actually "on-the-fringe"? Or were they set up by that organization for no apparent reason? My reason for asking is that maybe people posting could be more sensisitive to the fact that these girls have issues and stop worrying so much about their manners. Of course we have an obligation to show kids the right way, but it has to be done with sensitivity and you can't push your views on them, especially if you're just having them for Shabbos. I imagine the point of them going to normal people for meals is to just observe as much as they care to.
As I said before, I think you absolutely did the right thing. You woke them and gave them a chance and they chose not to take it.

binah918

Mon, Nov 27 2006, 10:30 am

Maybe it wasn't clear from my post...I wasn't "offended" by their manners. No problem, I understand that maybe they're shy, tired, naturally quiet, etc. I still expected them to try to make some conversation with us, but I was offended that they didn't...just a little surprised.

About them being "on the fringe:" I'm not too familiar with the organization and I didn't get a good enough chance to get to know the girls to make my own judgment. Anyway, that aside, I agree with you Mama247 that a host shouldn't worry about their "fringe" guest's manners and rather she should just try to give the guest the best experience possible.

And finally, I also agree 100% that it's the host's repsonsibility to make the guests comfortable. I'm just so not used to such quiet guests that I didn't even know HOW to make them comfortable. In the end I gave them their space, thinking that might be the best for them.

Thanks everyone for your answers. Definately food for thought. And I'll know to get Shabbos day plans in order before the guests go to sleep next time!

Ribbie Danzinger

Mon, Nov 27 2006, 2:11 pm

There is a true story about a man who arrived on Friday at the house of a tzadik (the Chafetz Chayim?). The guest was tired after a long journey and accepted the offer to lie down until Shabbos was in. He slept soundly and upon waking, came out of his room to find the tzadik and his wife waiting patiently for kiddush. The guest apologized for keeping them waiting but the tzadik greeted his guest warmly and offered to wait while the man davened ma'ariv. After davening, the guest sat down to the Shabbos meal, surprised that the tzadik did not seem to be in the mood for conversation. The tzadik and his wife benched and left the guest to his own devices.
Being that the guest had slept well just a short time before, he decided to take a sefer and learn. As he was doing so, his eyes caught sight of the clock, it was two o'clock in the morning! The tzadik and his wife had obviously waited for their guest for some hours until he awoke.

I suppose we're not all on the level of that tzadik. Wink

amother

Mon, Nov 27 2006, 2:34 pm

My dd used to go my dh aunt for shabbos in Bnei Brak. The first time she went she told me she didn't go to shul in the am.I was very surprised. She said the aunt & uncle felt the girls worked so hard all week that they needed time to sleep. They would come home from shul, wake the girls, let them daven while uncle made kiddush(they were older pple). Then he would make kidush for them again or they would go to one of the cousins for lunch. The girls were told of the plan in advance.

Motek

Tue, Nov 28 2006, 12:22 pm

binah918 wrote:

Motek, I think you misunderstood. Of course they shouldn't ask prying questions but...

So, where are you from?
Did you make aliyah, or are you just here for a few years?
Why did you make aliyah?
What do you do?
Where do you work?

Different strokes ... I don't see having teenagers asking me those questions. And although you don't think they are prying, I think they are personal.

For that matter, the host asking guests those questions might also not be appropriate. Sometimes people who are guests for many years (older singles etc.) are really tired of answering those questions or don't feel like answering those questions about themselves.

How about conversation that is more general?