Do I still have a right to not let my son go to the mall?

amother

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 11:17 am

My 15 yr old son woke up and missed 10;30 shacharis and I told him that if there is no 11 shacharis that he cant go to the mall today.
He went and came home 10 minutes earlier than he normally does claiming that he left shacharis early plus he didnt have a hat and jacket but went to daven in a teeshirt and tiros which we discussed is not allowed he needs at least a white tshirt.
I suspect there was no 11 minyan because he never comes home early if there is.
I told him he cant go to the mall because of coming home early and not wearing a hat and jacket. He said that wasnt the deal if there wasnt a minyan then he was grounded.
So now do I have the right to ground him or not?

notshanarishona

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 11:22 am

I don’t think giving consequences is the way to make your son have a interest in davening. At 15 if he isn’t motivated then I don’t think forcing works. You need to work on the root cause of why Davening isn’t important to him.
At this age he is likely not at home most of the year and needs to start being in charge of his own Avodas Hashem

amother

Linen

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 11:23 am

Why are you punishing him for the fact that there was no minyan? He doesn't organize the minyanim, does he?

Besides, at that age it should be between him and Hashem whether he davens with a minyan. I have a son the same age (plus many who were that age in the past), and while I wake him up gently once or twice for davening, if he doesn't get up, I don't say a word to him. That has nothing to do with me.

Cheiny

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 11:25 am

amother OP wrote:

This is a very delicate a situation that could have implications for the future. I think you should take it very seriously, which I know you do, but I think it warrants you speaking to your Rov and asking for guidance on how best to handle this so it doesn’t escalate…

amother

Denim

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 11:30 am

Punishing your child for not davening is never the right option. It’s something that they have to want to do on their own, and you making it a pressured, stressful fight between him and his parents will vastly decrease his chances of actually valuing davening.

amother

Mustard ↓

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 11:38 am

You sound controlling. please seek professional guidance before you and son have a volcanic explosion, or he begins lying to you about going to minyan while he's just riding the neighborhood until he knows it's a safe amount of time to return home.there are worse scenarios that can play out from the way you are handling this.

amother

Clear

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 11:42 am

I can't stress how many people I know can't bring themselves to daven formal tefillah or wear the yeshivish dress (girls version of a white shirt) because of this type of parenting.

I am SURE that you are a good mother and try hard!! You're just misguided in this area.

I hardly davened as a child and teenager. I barely covered my knees.

My mother treated me with love and left all that between me and Hashem and turned a "blind eye" towards it.

I daven every day now. It is my life source. I dress well withing my communites lines now. I love it.

I have friends who have such a hard time with this because of rules and punishments like yours. I am so thankful to my parents for leaving me with these mitzvos.

amother

↑ Mustard

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 11:51 am

...you can resind your words. And tell him he can go.
"You know shefela, a thought about it . I changed my mind . I think you should go to the mall with your friends and have a good time, I live you have fun"

amother

Fern

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 12:01 pm

Generally its best to show your kids you trust them by believing what they say (even if you're not 100% sure) unless there are serious implications.

Had he really davened with the 11 minyan you would have let him go even though he was in tiros... You cant change the rues midgame...

Tell him you kept your end of the deal of davening with a minyan so go and enjoy.

amother

DarkViolet

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 12:55 pm

He’s 15, not 10
Time to let go
You cannot control his stuff that’s between him and g-d and definitely don’t punish
If anything you can try the opposite
Promise him money for each day he wakes up on time for minyan!

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 1:00 pm

amother Mustard wrote:

I think this would be so meaningful to him if you can do it.
Remind him to set an alarm for tomorrow.

amother

Blush

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 1:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

You can do what you want and win the battle and lose the war. Pretty much guaranteed you will gain nothing from this. Your son won't have any love for minyan from this. The more you force the less you gain. I can tell you from experience. I want ever force my kids I will suggest and they can choose to do what they want. I say "would you like to daven now" and 99.9% of the time they do. If I would say daven right now I would probably get a different response. Regarding his tshirt and tiros do you really think gd doesn't hear prayers wearing that? When he is mature he will realize on his own if he wants to wear that to davening.

CPenzias

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 1:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

Did he know in advance that he wouldn't be allowed to go to the mall if he misses shacharis or is that a consequence you decided after he missed it? (I'm asking because I was the same way years ago)
Additionally, I know you didn't ask for my input but I'm here to gently tell you that forcing teens to go to shul (I'm not sure if that's what's happening here) won't make them want to go. I know it's not easy, believe me. My oldest is going to Israel for the year iyh and I'm hopeful that he'll be inspired

amother

Glitter

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 2:23 pm

OP, I just wsnt to kindly point out that you are coming down very strong on your son for not doing things that actually...are not halacha.

Davening with a minyan is amazing and brings zchusim but is not halachicly required.
He needs to daven.
And yes, even in tiros.

Tell your son good job and youre proud of him for davening, then tell him you changed your mind and you really want him to come to the mall with you because you love his company.