praying at the gym

amother ↓

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 12:43 am

Just curious, what you all think. I go to a Jewish gym in NY and sometimes see women saying tehillim while exercising. I think it is absolutely horrible. Here they are, in pants and t-shirt,sweating while they exercise and they think it's an appropriate time to daven to Hashem. If a person wants to talk to Hashem then she should be dressed accordingly and should be devoting her time exclusively to that. What irks me the most is that they probably think they are so holy because they are using the time to daven.
Am I wrong in thinking this way?????

faigie ↓

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 12:46 am

what an interesting question...................
I would answer. depending............
I know MO girls who daven with pants on....... so for them it would be normal and ok.........
but IMHO for a girls who wears a skirt etc I might not be such a good idea, cuz they arent really properly dressed........
on the otherhand we daven wearing nothing at all in the mikveh.......
what a fun question to throw around!

↑ amother

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 1:14 am

I disagree imaamy. If you don't have time to daven don't do it on the treadmill. It's like saying to g'd: I don't really have time for You but I'll fit you in while I'm exercising. Also, I wasn't referring as much to the pants as to the fact that they are basically in a state of undress. These are frum ppl. I'm talking about who are wearing a snood to cover their hair. I have no problem with a person who's not that frum (and wears pants) and davens.

TzenaRena ↓

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 2:09 am

I think OP is right, but not because it's improper to say Tehillim while doing something, but because of being not properly dressed. I remember learning that it's even improper to daven in a bedroom, if the beds aren't made. (sorry, don't recall the source).

And although the practice of many G-d fearing Jews was to say Tehillim, Mishnayos and other verses of Torah by heart while they worked (see Lubavitcher Rebbe's Memoirs for numerous such stories), so it's definitely not a problem that they are saying this as they do something, still, the state of undress makes it not kovodik.

Motek ↓

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 9:22 am

I would assume that the type of person who would do that, asked a rav who told them that if they are covered (even in pants) and they washed their hands beforehand, it's fine. Just my assumption though.

And do you think it's appropriate or inappropriate to use Jewish music with words (pesukim) to exercise with? Like back in high school, when they rented a roller rink, we skated to MBD etc.

↑ Motek ↓

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 9:25 am

And there was a story, don't remember with who, maybe the Baal Shem Tov. Something about a person commenting disparagingly about a man davening while greasing his wagon wheels. How could he? How disrespectful!

And the response was - that's because you're thinking about it as: Look at this lowlife who davens while doing his work, instead of looking at it as: Look at this special person who, even while he does his work, davens to Hashem!

↑ faigie ↓

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 7:14 pm

could be the following...... could be that the girls dont want the time on the treadmill to be bitul zman........
though I am no posek......... this issue just doesnt give my kishkis an issue. I actually ana bakoach all day, at any time that I need to. must add up to over 20 times per day for sure.

mumsy23

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 8:02 pm

Motek wrote:

I think it sounds better like this:

And the response was - that's bcause you're thinking about it as: Look at this lowlife who works while he davens of, instead of looking at it as: Look at this special person who, davens even while he works!

Ruchel

Sat, Jun 17 2006, 5:11 pm

Quote:

If a person wants to talk to Hashem then she should be dressed accordingly and should be devoting her time exclusively to that.

No, you can talk to Hashem whenever you want.

Quote:

I know MO girls who daven with pants on....... so for them it would be normal and ok.........
but IMHO for a girls who wears a skirt etc I might not be such a good idea, cuz they arent really properly dressed........

true

Quote:

on the otherhand we daven wearing nothing at all in the mikveh.......

true too

Quote:

It's like saying to g'd: I don't really have time for You but I'll fit you in while I'm exercising.*

That’s the half empty or half full glass thing. It could also be I love You so much I’m always thinking of you, even in a totally “weird” context.

dleah ↓

Sun, Jun 18 2006, 2:47 am

Just curious, what you all think. I go to a Jewish synagogue in NY and sometimes see women saying tehillim while also talking in shul. I think it is absolutely horrible. Here they are, in shabbos clothes, gossiping away about their neighbors and they think it's an appropriate time to daven to Hashem. If a person wants to talk to Hashem then she should be speaking and thinking accordingly and should be devoting her time exclusively to that. What irks me the most is that they probably think they are so holy because they are using the time to daven.
Am I wrong in thinking this way?????

Crayon210 ↓

Sun, Jun 18 2006, 2:53 am

Motek wrote:

Maybe a related story...I heard one about R' Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev, and the man was wearing his tefillin!

↑ TzenaRena ↓

Sun, Jun 18 2006, 3:35 am

dleah wrote:

Yes, you are wrong. Jewish people don't think they are holy, they are holy. The urge to do/think/speak something else during the time they have - to their credit-set aside for davening (witness the fact that they are in shul) comes from the "left ventricle of the heart" the seat of the yetzer hora, and drives of the animal soul.

The reason the animal soul/yetzer horah acts up specifically during thee time a person is davening to disturb his prayers is because he/she is accomplishing such a G-dly thing, and his/her G-dly soul, the true essence of a Jew is connecting with Hashem. There is a power struggle here between the G-dly soul and the animal soul.

Unfortunately, many people get confused when they experience such a conflict within themselves, and think there is something hypocritical about davening when they feel an opposing tug in the other direction. They get discouraged and think there is no point, if their davening is not "truthful". But it is. And once that is realized, the person can just ignore the conflicting thoughts/urges and go on with the davening.

See Tanya Ch. 28. (also Chs. 9, 27)

shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Jun 18 2006, 4:19 am

faigie wrote:

being modern orthodox is not what makes it ok for someone to daven in pants.
it is ok for a woman to daven in almost anything as long as her erva is covered, thats all. she can technically daven completely naked with her legs closed and that is enough, so plants is not really a problem, we can even daven in our pajamas if we so choose to.

Inspired ↓

Sun, Jun 18 2006, 10:53 am

amother wrote:

I've heard of women davening during labor.I geard that some hold is especially auspicious to say a prayer during crowning. EWWWW! how NASTY. Don't they klnow that G-d does not belong in the labor room! I mean they are sweating, bleeding, something is coming out of their PRIVATE PART for goosdness sake.

[/tongue in cheek, total sarcasm]

Seriously amother, mnd your own beeswax as we used to say in 4th grade and worry about your own actions. Not the actions of others. If this thread was a question about your own actions "should I be saying tehillim on the treadmill? What do you think?" then maybe it would lead to a serious discussion pro and con. As it is now, its just you being judgemental with others either agreeing and adding to the bashing or disagreeing and bashing you. Really now.

And before you be judgmental, as faige and ytw pointed out, learn what the halacha is. (a woman can daven NAKED!)

Last edited by Inspired on Sun, Jun 18 2006, 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Sun, Jun 18 2006, 12:25 pm

Yes. We do it in the mikvah. The requirement is that the erva be covered, which can be accomplished very easily (I.e., sitting down). Obviously it is not ideal to pray nude, and one should take care to look appropriate. For example, Halichos Bas Yisrael writes that women should not wear an apron while davening!