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-> Judaism
downsyndrome
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 Tue, May 23 2006, 12:35 pm
I would like to get some feedback - here's my dilemma:
On countless nights, shortly after I say 'hamapil' and have not yet fallen asleep, one of my young children wakes up with some sort of problem that cannot be addressed by a mother just using sign language and saying "nu, nu, nu", and I find that I just start to talk and respond to the child's needs. Is this allowed? Is it better for me not to say hamapil at all, rather than say and then speak when it is prohibited?
What are all imas out there doing in the same situation?
Thanks.
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merpk
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Tue, May 23 2006, 2:22 pm
Your question reminds me of the huge learning jolt I took when at shul one Shabbos I saw a very special rav (who was eventually to be our mesader kiddushin), standing very straight because it was during Kedushah, then bend down to listen to his young child who needed him at that moment. I saw him speak to the child, pick up the child, hug him, kiss him, speak again, then put him down ... and then continue with the davening.
A beautiful parenting moment, and a very important learning moment.
And am waiting with baited breath for the easy-dozen posters who will now express horror that this rav actually spoke during Kedushah, with admonishments that we should teach our young children not to interrupt davening, not to mention leave youngsters at home on Shabbos morning.
So anyway, maybe I'd say yes, sure, why not say it, but when your child needs you to speak to him, you should speak to him. (And "nu nu nu" is not speaking to him. IMO.)
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Crayon210
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Tue, May 23 2006, 2:26 pm
I don't think it's great chinuch to talk during davening in order to show your kids you love them... it's not permitted.
Additionally, one may not kiss a child in shul during davening.
downsyndrome, I would ask a rav.
I personally fall asleep before saying Hamapil, LOL.
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shayna82
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Tue, May 23 2006, 2:45 pm
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if the child is young and cant do /take care of whatever it is that he wants of you, I dotn see a problem in talking. that uneccesary difficulty over soemthing so mundane.
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sarahd
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Tue, May 23 2006, 2:48 pm
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My husband says that in yeshiva it was suggested to say "brich Rachmana mara dechulei alma" instead of "Boruch ata Hashem..." in case you don't fall asleep right away.
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chocolate moose
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Tue, May 23 2006, 3:05 pm
I had this in sleep away camp. Thegirls couldnt' be trusted to say Hamapil and go right to sleep, so they didn';t want to say it.
I insisted they say it, it was better to say it and be interrupted than not say it.
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merpk
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Tue, May 23 2006, 8:24 pm
| Crayon210 wrote: | I don't think it's great chinuch to talk during davening in order to show your kids you love them... it's not permitted.
Additionally, one may not kiss a child in shul during davening.
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I didn't say he spoke to the child "in order to show the kids he loved them." His child needed him, so he was available ... why is that a problem? We ask HaShem to answer us when we need Him, too, right? Aneinu b'yom koreinu, not aneinu when you're done with all that other stuff and get around to me, right?
Am bummed to hear that I've got to do teshuva for kissing my children in shul during davening. Thanks for letting me know.
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Frumom
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Tue, May 23 2006, 8:55 pm
| merpk wrote: | Your question reminds me of the huge learning jolt I took when at shul one Shabbos I saw a very special rav (who was eventually to be our mesader kiddushin), standing very straight because it was during Kedushah, then bend down to listen to his young child who needed him at that moment. I saw him speak to the child, pick up the child, hug him, kiss him, speak again, then put him down ... and then continue with the davening.
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I think that is beautiful. The child obviously needed his father, or he wouldn't have interrupted his davening!
There's a story about the Miteler Rebbe learning and his baby was crying. He didnt go pick him up because he was learning. The baby's grandfather, the Alter Rebbe was neaby when this happened and went to pick up the crying baby. He said when a baby cries, you answer.
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Crayon210
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Tue, May 23 2006, 10:04 pm
| merpk wrote: | | I didn't say he spoke to the child "in order to show the kids he loved them." His child needed him, so he was available ... why is that a problem? We ask HaShem to answer us when we need Him, too, right? Aneinu b'yom koreinu, not aneinu when you're done with all that other stuff and get around to me, right? |
That's a nice mashal, but it doesn't change halacha.
| Quote: | | Am bummed to hear that I've got to do teshuva for kissing my children in shul during davening. Thanks for letting me know. |
I was just mentioning a halacha. 
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Crayon210
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Tue, May 23 2006, 10:06 pm
| Frumom wrote: | | There's a story about the Miteler Rebbe learning and his baby was crying. He didnt go pick him up because he was learning. The baby's grandfather, the Alter Rebbe was neaby when this happened and went to pick up the crying baby. He said when a baby cries, you answer. |
Learning and davening are two different things...there are no halachos about talking while you're learning.
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Blossom
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Wed, May 24 2006, 1:10 am
Downsyndrome-According to my husband rather say than not even if you'll get interrupted. (He's not a dayan but that's what he learned).
Needless to say, like Crayon, I fall asleep before saying Hamapil LOL
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merpk
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Wed, May 24 2006, 1:45 am
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I've heard the story of the Alter Rebbe, the Mitler Rebbe and the baby, too. But I heard it that he was davening.
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Crayon210
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Wed, May 24 2006, 9:52 am
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I would like a source for that!
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southernbubby
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Wed, May 24 2006, 10:06 am
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I have never said it. My husband and I became frum right after we were married and when I had my first child, it was not on the agenda. Even now, my single kids call at all hours needing to talk to me and I feel the need to be available. No, I never asked a rav. This is just how I have done things.
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Frumom
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Wed, May 24 2006, 10:27 am
| Crayon210 wrote: | | Frumom wrote: | | There's a story about the Miteler Rebbe learning and his baby was crying. He didnt go pick him up because he was learning. The baby's grandfather, the Alter Rebbe was neaby when this happened and went to pick up the crying baby. He said when a baby cries, you answer. |
Learning and davening are two different things...there are no halachos about talking while you're learning. |
The point is, I'm sure that while davening if your child needs you, that comes first. I hear you about the halacha, but if my kid needed me in mid. of davening I would interrupt.
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Crayon210
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Wed, May 24 2006, 10:36 am
| Frumom wrote: | | Crayon210 wrote: | | Frumom wrote: | | There's a story about the Miteler Rebbe learning and his baby was crying. He didnt go pick him up because he was learning. The baby's grandfather, the Alter Rebbe was neaby when this happened and went to pick up the crying baby. He said when a baby cries, you answer. |
Learning and davening are two different things...there are no halachos about talking while you're learning. |
The point is, I'm sure that while davening if your child needs you, that comes first. I hear you about the halacha, but if my kid needed me in mid. of davening I would interrupt. |
I understand that you would interrupt, but that may or may not be compatible with halacha. To say that "while davening, if your child needs you, that comes first," may be halachically incorrect.
I have a childhood memory of badgering my father while he was davening Shmoneh Esrei and feeling frustrated that he wouldn't even indicate to me facially that he had heard me! Some rude old guy came over and told me he was davening Shmoneh Esrei (what's that?!) and that he couldn't respond.
Though I was ticked off at the rude guy, I still have a lot of respect for my father that he was able to ignore even the likes of me  while he was davening. It made a big impact on me.
I personally do not daven when I am responsible for someone's welfare in an immediate way...and if I am, then, barring medical emergencies, I don't respond!
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gryp
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Wed, May 24 2006, 11:45 am
| Quote: | | But I heard it that he was davening. |
the story is that the Mitteler Rebbe was learning...
as the song goes: 
"Once when the Mitteler Rebbe Dov Ber
was learning late in the night..."
he didnt hear the baby crying since he was engrossed in his learning, but the Alter Rebbe did hear, and went to the baby.
The Alter Rebbe then told the Mitteler Rebbe, that the lesson is that when someone is crying out in Yiddishkeit, we must listen and help them, no matter what we are engrossed in.
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imanut
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Wed, May 24 2006, 11:49 am
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I daven with my children and sometimes I must interrupt at the wrong place. I try not to but it's not always avoidable. I feel like at least I'm davening, that's the best I can do.
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chocolate moose
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Wed, May 24 2006, 11:56 am
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very often I interrupt my davening to help a beginner in shul.
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