Help, baby cries to nurse ALL night!

↑ tichellady

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 6:00 pm

amother Mintgreen wrote:

If the baby naturally sleeps that 4-5 hour stretch, I agree it isn’t harmful. But if baby wakes up and wants to nurse and mom is intent on waiting until 4-5 hours, thats absolutely harmful. If baby wants to nurse in middle of the night, let them. Especially before 6 months when you can’t even offer them water for thirst and they are completely reliant on your breastmilk.

Your response doesn’t seem to be connected to what the op wrote. She is nursing, baby is still unhappy and she’s miserable. People are trying to help Change the situation

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 6:31 pm

Oy as cranky as I am I did not mean to start any fights here.

To clarify, he is not always or even usually uncomfortable while nursing. Only when he insists on it for comfort repeatedly. For example last night I don't think he did any uncomfortable nursing - I gave up and let him snack on and off in our sleep, once sleep came. But if I had tried to put him down then he would have woken up and demanded to nurse even though he wouldn't have done so on his own. And in that case he can overstuff himself because he's definitely just looking for comfort and not food.

Ideally I would like him to eat fully and then not eat until he's hungry again. Not this comfort snacking. But attempts to hold off the nursing aren't going very well at night. During the day is better.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 9:16 pm

Well.
We did stay in bed late today but after that I think we did ok with a sleep friendly schedule. Wake windows and naps seemed good according to that nice link shared early in the thread. There was one nap that was probably too late in the day (6ish) when he fell asleep on a short car errand, but I kept it short.

He was already looking tired a little before 8. Recalling that this is the optimal bedtime unanimously across this thread and every website, I initiated bedtime. I turned the lights off instead of just dim as per some advice here. He had eaten recently enough so I offered paci instead of nursing. Sang shema. Did not bother trying crib because we all need a reset after the past week's trauma. Tried to rock him to sleep without nursing and it was nice and relaxing for maybe 15 min, he kvetched to nurse but I held him off with other ideas, then he got to the point of real crying so ok I nursed him. After a while when he seemed to be drowsing and not eating I tried to unlatch so he could maybe finish falling asleep without my nipple in his mouth. Each time he cried I went back to nursing because I'm not taking chances on another whole night of escalating crying. Finally he let me unlatch and fell back asleep like that. This was in my bed so I didn't even put him down, I was so tired I figured I'll take at least a little nap right here before trying to put him down.

Half hour later someone knocked at my door and he woke up. After a minute he cried to nurse again. Did not seem to be taking no for an answer so I went ahead and nursed, again just hoping to avoid another awful night. But here we are nursing for the second time of bedtime and the third time within a couple of hours.

I'll let you know what happens.

I can quit my job if I want to spend the next 10 years digging out of credit card debt, and have no reason to get dressed or see the light of day. I'm that kind of person who needs a strong scheduled external motivation to pull myself together and have a life. Getting back to work after maternity leave was a very healthy move. I only went back very part time though. Gets me a little income and a little break from home, but doesn't take too much out of me. Bh I'm lucky I can do that. Hopefully this regression ends someday soon without having to quit interacting with the world.

amother

↑ Mintgreen ↓

Thu, Jan 18 2024, 11:52 pm

amother OP wrote:

What I’m trying to explain is that there is nothing wrong with comfort snacking. It’s good for baby to do that. You shouldn’t be trying to push him off.
When a baby is very needy it’s so difficult and I really empathize with you, Op. I hope it gets better soon.
Edited to add, I saw your last post. When he wants to nurse don’t do the push off thing, just nurse him. He is so little and it’s stressful for him that it’s a struggle every time where you are trying not to nurse. Just nurse him and he will have less tears. It’s very hard but this stage will pass soon.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 12:18 am

I do nurse him. But when he is clearly full and falling asleep it feels like time to go, no?

Anyway as of last time I posted he had woken but was nursing back down. Indeed he fell asleep nursing and then I was able to put him down and try to take care of myself a little. Put on a baby monitor and hoped beyond hope that this was nighttime, being a peaceful falling asleep after a nice tame day with well placed naps and wakes.

Well apparently he considered it a nap because he woke up about a half hour later around 10. By then dh was home so I sent him in, hoping that maybe he'd be better off not seeing me. I heard over the monitor that dh followed my advice to go in quietly, wait and see until he would start crying in case he would settle himself back down, picked him up when he started crying but before he got worked up, and gently walked around and sang to him. But he was not settling back down, just waking up for real ready to chill. So he chilled for another half hour or so then gave him back to me, where he chilled for another little while before looking tired and looking to nurse. I stalled a little hoping he would nurse more at once instead of snacking, and indeed around 11:30 he ate heartily. But did not fall back asleep, just perked back up again. Hung around on my lap in bed smiling and playing with his lovey. Passed him back to dh looking tired, thinking maybe he can be sung down to sleep like the good old days. But he got another second wind and just chilled on dh and then just now kvetched to come back to me. He looks good and tired now, will no doubt demand to nurse again before going back to sleep even though he nursed heartily about a half hour ago.

Anyway if he does fall asleep now or soon, it'll be a big improvement over the past few nights. But still very far from any kind of normal bedtime and very much proof that putting him to sleep at 8 does not work for the night, he considers it a nap and then it only makes bedtime later because now he's rested and not tired for a while .

amother

↑ Mintgreen ↓

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 12:38 am

Your baby sounds so cute. What you want to do is keep it really dark and quiet when he wakes up and have a cue word for sleep that you use when you come in so he associates that with sleep ( night, night or shh, sleep time) And then when he wakes up nurse him right away before he gets woken up so that you’re meeting his needs but your still keeping the structure of nighttime so he goes right back to sleep. It’s important to have good sleep hygiene and also nurse him when he wants . Yes, both of those seemingly contradictory needs can be meet.
In your hope to break the nursing to sleep association he is getting upset and you are giving him a chance to wake up for real. There is nothing inherently wrong with him nursing to sleep and if you dream feed him hopefully he will wake up less and go right back to sleep.

In regards to over feeding a breastfed baby, it’s basically impossible. Babies have to work very hard to breastfeed so if they want to do it we can trust that there is a biological need for that. There are so many reasons a baby wants to nurse and nursing them when they want and not pushing off feeds , is the right way to feed baby. I hope your baby gives you a stretch tonight and you get some sleep.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 12:53 am

I like that idea to nurse before he wakes up so he doesn't wake up. That's kind of what's going on in my bed the whole time once we get sleeping there, and it's very high maintenance for me because that's a lot of nursing since he wakes up for that often, but first of all to start doing that earlier so his night can get started and secondly hopefully only short term so he can get in the habit of not waking up crying all the time, it sounds very much worth a try!

Here's my big question: when you say have a word or something associated with sleep. Or when people say have a bedtime routine associated with sleep. How is it supposed to get associated with sleep in the first place if the baby does not sleep when you bring it on? I mean I've been doing this bedtime routine concept for at least a month. Dim light, change diaper, nurse, sing shema, sing another bedtime song. But if he doesn't fall asleep after that then how does it help? You can lead a baby to the crib but you can't make him sleep, to borrow a metaphor.

And for those of you saying I shouldn't manually unlatch him, he's been sleepy nursing since my last post FORTY minutes ago. Ok not sleepy nursing the whole time, maybe the first 5-10 min was actual nursing, followed by maybe 15 min of on and off sucking. But since then he is DEFINITELY using me as a pacifier. And how is he even going to achieve real sleep if he keeps sucking? A pacifier at some point falls out and one hopes the baby continues sleeping after that. So anyway yes I do plan to interrupt his nursing because this is ridiculous. The question is whether I try to put him down or just go to sleep like this.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 1:02 am

dena613 wrote:

Do you nurse on your side, lying down? Because then he can nurse all night.
That's not really what I'd recommend ideally, but desperate times get to desperate measures

Yes. It's better than not sleeping, but it's way too much interruption for me to feel at all rested ever. Especially if he's not going to start until 3am (1 tonight. A definite improvement IF it lasts. I should really try a transfer because, yet again, I timed a laundry poorly and it needs to be transferred and if I don't do it someone is bound to put my delicates in the dryer on high).

He used to sleep in a bassinet for about 4-5 hours, and then switch to nursing lying next to me. That worked pretty well, a chunk of good sleep followed by a dessert of light sleep. I don't know what happened to that or how to get it back (or something else final)

amother

↑ Mintgreen ↓

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 1:22 am

Op, this is so difficult. A needy baby takes everything out of you.

To answer your question, even though you are nursing baby back to sleep when you are interacting in a dark and quiet room he understands it’s still night and not playing time. So if you say shh shh sleep ( or whatever you wish to say) he understands it’s part of night and the goal is that as he developmentally and biologically gets older he will go longer stretches. You don’t need to say a sleep association phrase and you can just be loving and gentle but not chatty with him so he doesn’t wake up unnecessarily.
When you get really desperate just go to sleep with baby and co sleep. Sleep isn’t the same but if you go to bed earlier you can get some sleep that way. And ask dh to switch the laundry so you can sleep.
It’s so difficult when there are so much that need to get done and baby is just needing you. I’ve been in your shoes and I get it. I hope it gets better really soon.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 1:40 am

So I had dh doing the sh sh calming in a dark quiet room for like a half hour earlier and baby just wanted to get up and play anyway. He just would not settle back down.

Even if he weren't sound asleep, which he is, Dh is the chief offender when it comes to putting delicates in the dryer on the towels setting. Our dryer is harsh. And I know there was a teen waiting to use the washing machine after me.

But there's no point in worrying about it because we are officially back in that nursing cycle...I will try to see if I can sleep through some of it but it's crazy.

amother

↑ Mintgreen

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 1:49 am

amother OP wrote:

So challenging. I hope your cutie lets you sleep a little.

↑ Rachel Shira ↓

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 6:32 am

amother OP wrote:

If you’re interested, can you post the naps your baby had yesterday?

pause

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 1:56 pm

If you are on your phone while baby is nursing/sleeping on you, he can't settle into a deep sleep. Room must be dark. We have blackout shades and literally no light. Even my alarm clock is turned away so as not to shine on baby.

IDK if it was said already but a noise machine is very helpful, especially for sleep association.

And then yes, some of my babies were like this. They sleep attached to me until I can't handle it anymore and then we sleep train in another room. For one kid that was 18 months and for another it was 8 months, and the rest were someplace in between.

amother

↑ Orange

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 2:06 pm

amother OP wrote:

I don’t want to add to your stress if scheduling doesn’t feel like the right direction but if it does- it starts in the morning. A baby that got up at 10 and had his last nap at 6 can’t go to sleep at 8.

It does sound like the baby is less hysterically overtired? So maybe trying to be on a better schedule over the weekend will slowly help things?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jan 19 2024, 2:12 pm

Rachel Shira wrote:

If you’re interested, can you post the naps your baby had yesterday?

Will try to remember.
Got out of bed around 11. Please don't judge.

Nursed a good meal a little after 12, slept nicely from about 12:30-1:30. So that follows the 1.5 hour first wake window and a nap that's refreshing but not too long.

Went to babysitter where he had 5oz of formula at 2, and napped from about 3-4.
Again like a 1.5 hour wake window with a medium sized nap.

Ate a nice lupper at 5. Fell asleep during a car errand around 6 but woke up right after we got home, maybe 6:30?

And then looked pleasantly tired but not overtired by 8. And indeed he fell asleep quite nicely around 8. But then woke up as if it was a nap.

At night after 1:30ish we did the nursing and sleeping thing. Too tired to keep track of how much nursing vs sleeping but in summary it was better than not sleeping but not enough to make me feel like I slept. Woke up for real around 10:30 after having sleepy snacks all morning. Fell asleep in car around 12 but woke up not long after stopping to drive - maybe 1? I don't remember. Now it's 2 and he is nearing the end of a big lunch nursing and looking like he's drowsy from the milk but not really going to sleep. He's been hanging on nursing for a while but I gotta go finish making shabbos, he's just not ending off. Seems satisfied and then starts sucking more. I remember doing this as a newborn but kind of thought at this point he's supposed to eat, be satisfied, and move on. Idk.

Thank you for caring Hug