 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> Relationships
-> Simcha Section
↑
greenfire
↓
|
 Thu, Apr 19 2007, 11:16 am
| Mitzvahmom wrote: | | greenfire wrote: |
oh my family would dress tzinus ... but you wouldn't forget them ... |
My family would create a third dancing floor so they could dance together.... 
anyways...life is crazy |
and did I mention that I LOVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}
even with their shortcomings
| |
|
| Back to top |
 0
 0
|
↑
Mitzvahmom
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 11:23 am
|
of course I love my family too!!!
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Ruchel
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 11:29 am
| mimivan wrote: | What would be the problem for women to be wearing only bikinis on the women's side? Because as we know, ALL the men at weddings NEVER take a peek!  |
You know, a RAV wrote the problem is not looking at dancing or undressed women, but watching women on purpose and for pleasure. He said it was men's responsability not to look and if they can't, too bad for them and no reason to annoy the women. This rav permits NOT HAVING A MECHITZA for that reason (of course touching is forbidden so men and women can't dance together).
I like his point of view, that men need to learn to control themselves and not need to be protected, especially on women's cheshbon.
| R' Elie Kahn wrote: |
Il n'est pas interdit de voir des femmes danser; il est interdit de regarder des femmes, qu'elles dansent on ne dansent pas, pour en retirer du plaisir.
Il faut séparer les danses, mais il n'est pas obligatoire de construire une séparation physique. |
It is not forbidden to see women dancng, it is forbidden to watch women, dancing or not, in order to have pleasure from it.
Dances must be separated, but it is not mandatory to built a physical separation.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Crayon210
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 11:37 am
|
How do women suffer from having a mechitza in place?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
greenfire
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 11:46 am
| Ruchel wrote: | | mimivan wrote: | | What would be the problem for women to be wearing only bikinis on the women's side? Because as we know, ALL the men at weddings NEVER take a peek! |
You know, a RAV wrote the problem is not looking at dancing or undressed women, but watching women on purpose and for pleasure. He said it was men's responsability not to look and if they can't, too bad for them and no reason to annoy the women. This rav permits NOT HAVING A MECHITZA for that reason (of course touching is forbidden so men and women can't dance together).
I like his point of view, that men need to learn to control themselves and not need to be protected, especially on women's cheshbon.
| R' Elie Kahn wrote: |
Il n'est pas interdit de voir des femmes danser; il est interdit de regarder des femmes, qu'elles dansent on ne dansent pas, pour en retirer du plaisir.
Il faut séparer les danses, mais il n'est pas obligatoire de construire une séparation physique. |
It is not forbidden to see women dancng, it is forbidden to watch women, dancing or not, in order to have pleasure from it.
Dances must be separated, but it is not mandatory to built a physical separation. |
Yes indeed ... it's about time someone tell the men to get hold of themselves .... this is the problem ... thank you thank you thank you
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
greenfire
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 12:10 pm
|
funny ... I had a crown heights/yeshivish wedding ... and someone took apart the head table and made them into 2 like we were at 2 dif weddings ... I definately resented this ...
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Ruchel
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 12:14 pm
|
In some weddings they are not even in the same room!! I don't get it, if they are so afraid that some people will misbehave, they just should not invite them. Some bochurim got drunk and misbehaved at my engagement, where there was no dancing by the way, they just weren't there for the wedding!
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Crayon210
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 12:33 pm
Ruchel, your diagram has nothing to do with mechitzos but your personal circumstances. My wedding had mechitzos right down the middle and everyone was comfortable.
The separate rooms is for tznius, not because they're afraid a man is going to start attacking women.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Ruchel
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 12:38 pm
Crayon that's good, because I often see mechitzos like mine or no mechitza and nothing between these two... When it is fairly done I have no problem with a mechitza. Actually I grew up not knowing some rabbis allowed no mechitza.
I personally do not see what is untsnius about being in the same room.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Crayon210
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 12:43 pm
|
Because you and I know that lots of people can accidentally wind up on the wrong side. ;-)
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
sc
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 5:22 pm
|
Ruchel, it is tue men need control themselves BUT... why shouldn't we help them out and not put them in hard situations like a wedding without a mechitza?!!!
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Ruchel
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 6:59 pm
| sc wrote: | | Ruchel, it is tue men need control themselves BUT... why shouldn't we help them out and not put them in hard situations like a wedding without a mechitza?!!! |
It is true that a mechitza isn't a big problem when built fairly.
But it would be good for men train themselves in such situations, so they won't have it too hard among the non Jewish women (much worse). I'm sure at least most of them can learn, but why would they if they are always sheltered? Just my opinion - I didn't even know it was shared by some rabbanim.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Ima'la
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 8:53 pm
Of COURSE a true ben Torah is working on himself, but men are "designed" so that this is a HUGE ta'avah for them! If a BT LOVED pepperoni pizza, but obviously doesn't eat it anymore, you wouldn't dangle it in their face!
Also, as one rav I know put it (actually, I think this is a combo of s/t 2 rabbeim said...): Women say - it's his problem - he shouldn't be looking. But if someone dehumanizes ME, that's MY problem! Someone who steals has a problem and loses out by his weakness - but I'm still not going to flaunt all my diamond jewelry on the A-train (use your imagination if you don't know NYC!) because the mugger should learn to control himself!
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Ruchel
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 9:00 pm
It's true too.
I suppose everyone should contact their rav about what way to follow...
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
greenfire
↓
|
Thu, Apr 19 2007, 9:02 pm
| Ima'la wrote: | Of COURSE a true ben Torah is working on himself, but men are "designed" so that this is a HUGE ta'avah for them! If a BT LOVED pepperoni pizza, but obviously doesn't eat it anymore, you wouldn't dangle it in their face!
Also, as one rav I know put it (actually, I think this is a combo of s/t 2 rabbeim said...): Women say - it's his problem - he shouldn't be looking. But if someone dehumanizes ME, that's MY problem! Someone who steals has a problem and loses out by his weakness - but I'm still not going to flaunt all my diamond jewelry on the A-train (use your imagination if you don't know NYC!) because the mugger should learn to control himself! |
okay that made me laugh  however ... we all see men and men see women everyday everywhere ... it is ridiculous to think that anybody should act as though they are not fully clothed (now that would be flaunting) and such a turn on that no one can function as normal human beings ...
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Ruchel
↓
|
Fri, Apr 20 2007, 10:28 am
| greenfire wrote: | | Ima'la wrote: | Of COURSE a true ben Torah is working on himself, but men are "designed" so that this is a HUGE ta'avah for them! If a BT LOVED pepperoni pizza, but obviously doesn't eat it anymore, you wouldn't dangle it in their face!
Also, as one rav I know put it (actually, I think this is a combo of s/t 2 rabbeim said...): Women say - it's his problem - he shouldn't be looking. But if someone dehumanizes ME, that's MY problem! Someone who steals has a problem and loses out by his weakness - but I'm still not going to flaunt all my diamond jewelry on the A-train (use your imagination if you don't know NYC!) because the mugger should learn to control himself! |
okay that made me laugh however ... we all see men and men see women everyday everywhere ... it is ridiculous to think that anybody should act as though they are not fully clothed (now that would be flaunting) and such a turn on that no one can function as normal human beings ... |
I agree.
By the way, I am such a turn on I walk around in a burka 
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
greenfire
↓
|
Fri, Apr 20 2007, 10:48 am
|
ruchel do you really wear a burka ... my dd wants one - she has a creative flare ... and thinks they are exotic and mysterious looking ...
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Ruchel
↓
|
Fri, Apr 20 2007, 11:26 am
|
lol no, b'h I'm not s-xy enough to need one!! 8)
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
| Related Topics |
Replies |
Last Post |
|
|
Mother of the Bride Gown
|
1 |
Fri, Nov 22 2024, 7:29 am  |
|
|
Bar mitzva hall in Brooklyn Bp/ Flatbush
|
11 |
Thu, Nov 14 2024, 1:58 pm |
|
|
Bar mitzva simcha dress in Brooklyn
|
0 |
Wed, Nov 13 2024, 11:30 am |
|
|
Mitzvah Tantz in English - is this the new style?
|
10 |
Tue, Nov 12 2024, 12:03 am |
|
|
Where can I find a Mother-of-Bride gown in London
|
14 |
Mon, Nov 11 2024, 5:43 pm |
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
