Question for those who have sent to daycare…

amother

↑ Lightcoral

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 5:53 pm

nechama2 wrote:

I now see she’s definitely wrong but I wouldn’t want to ruin her parnassa and get her in trouble

To me crossing such a red line with other peoples’ children overrides concerns about reporting. IMO her parnassa is meaningless in the face of something happening to a child cv”s. I’d ask daas torah first but it would take nothing less than a promise to shut her down for me not to report. But I respect that you don’t want to. I do hope you find a way to let the other mothers know, though. I would feel doubly betrayed if I found out later that another mother pulled her kid out for something like this but didn’t let anyone else know what had happened.

amother

↑ Dustypink

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 5:55 pm

ddmom wrote:

Absolutely!
Your experience is extremely concerning but you do not have enough information to shut her down, report her and I DK what else was suggested on this thread!!
I find reactions here a little extreme.

Me too. I would want to switch my baby to another morah, but I didn't read anything horrible enough to warrant closing the morah down. Sounds like the babies were neglected but if CVS there was an emergency, there was an adult.

Ive had morahs whose husbands have subbed if it was a very short amount of time. Once I was caught by surprised when I dropped off dd. She had told the mothers at dropoff but I came late so she didnt see me before she left.

One thing I have heard from mitapelets/ganenets is how hard it is to find a sub. Some decide not to open mainly for that reason alone! Unlike other jobs, they cant easily take a sick day or take an hour or two off. But a dh is not a good option if its more than 10 to 15 mins b/c most moms would not be ok with him changing diapers. (And she has to tell the parents beforehand!)

Id likely start by asking ppl who sent what her sub policy was and if they were notified beforehand.

amother

↑ Turquoise

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 5:58 pm

amother Dustypink wrote:

A parent should always be able to check on their baby. If they cant, red flags. Ive tried to make a point of coming at random times to check the situation.

Obviously, once I trust the Morah I will tell her in advance so she could have my baby ready instead of me coming and hearing she took a late nap.

Of courdse they should be alloewed. I never said otherwise.
We like to know so as not to put a kid down for a nap if the parent is coming at that time.

↑ nechama2

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 5:59 pm

amother Dustypink wrote:

She doesn’t have a sub policy, she was sick for a week before Rosh Hashana and notified all the parents that she won’t be taking babies until she was better (5 days+ 1 half day). I didn’t think anything of it because everyone is entitled to sick days but I had no idea you needed to hire a sub

nomismommy

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 6:03 pm

nechama2 wrote:

After staying home with all my babies so far, this is my first time sending a baby out to a babysitter so I’m unsure what the norms are…
Today I needed to pick my baby up from the babysitter (10 months) a little early since I had to take her to an appointment. After calling the babysitter a few times she didn’t answer so I just went over to her house. I knocked and knocked but no one answered, tried calling again, no answer. I heard the babies screaming (including mine).
At this point I was panicking and banging on the door. Still no answer.
Finally after about 10 minutes she answered her phone and I could hear that she wasn’t at home (honking in the background). I told her I was outside her house. She said oh ok and hung up.
A couple minutes later her husband opened the door with my baby who was inconsolable and had a very full diaper.
I’m so shaken by the whole event.
Is it normal for babysitters to leave the house without letting the parents know that they’re leaving them with their husbands?

I have a couple weeks until I start work so there’s time to move her to a different babysitter if necessary.

This one is very close to my house and was highly recommended so I'm debating whether I’m overreacting.
My gut is telling me it’s not right and I’ve already made enquiries into another babysitter.
Anyone have experience with this?

People will tell you a lot of things.
Its okay for babies to scream
Its okay for babies to stay in dirty diapers
You are just too clingy and dont want to give away your baby etc

NO

What I learnt the hard way.. trust your gut feeling. Every single time I decided to listen to someone instead of listening to my feelings, it was wrong. And I regretted it for a long long time. I had a bad feeling about my daughters sitter. I was told im just clingy, too sensitive, daughter needs to get used to it etc. I cant tell you how many times I have cried, how often I felt nauseous after leaving her there. We switched and guess what. I am not clingy and she is not too sensitive or too shy. She was just scared. And I was just a normal mother who had the right feeling all along.
What happened with your baby was not okay. Absolutely not. I would switch sitters and tell the other parents what I saw there. We all want our babies to be well taken care off. Letting a baby cry for an extended period of time with dirty diapers is abuse imo

amother

↑ Chestnut

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 6:10 pm

nechama2 wrote:

Totally agree. My other kids schools don’t mind when I pick them up randomly

As a babysitter we also don't mind, it is easier for us to know in advance so we can schedule the kid so they have eaten and diapered before you fetch. or if its during nap time I will keep them near the door to nap so its not going to wake the other kids when we have to bring them to you.
If I know a parent is fetching their child at 12:15, and usually they have their snack at 12 I will make sure to start earlier for that child that they have finished and ive cleaned their face when you come so you dont have to wait... ofcourse if you just knock I will straight away open the door and clean them in front of you, if they need a diaper change I will offer for you to wait whilst I do it esp if you are going straight out to an appointment, the last thing you want is a child with a wet diaper and no place to change them.

If the babysitter is private, im not sure there is anything that can be done, she isnt licensed or certified there isnt where to report. if she is an official mishpachton under a reshet you can let the person in charge of your neighbourhood mishpachtonim know of your experience.

amother

Saddlebrown

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 6:37 pm

I'm in Israel too, the culture is different. But I've had kids in daycare for over a decade at multiple daycares. The babysitters always tell us if someone else has to watch our kids and who it will be. She has had her husband do it for very short periods, but the kids knew him and adored him, so having it be her husband for half an hour was fine. If it was longer, it was other subs. We were always told in advance, even the morning of. If there was an emergency, the babysitters made sure to leave the babies with a sub that the babies already knew and told us when they could (sometimes only at pick up if it wasn't possible earlier, but the babies were always happy and well cared for at pick up).

Subs aren't required here, but it is good to ask in advance what happens if the babysitter has to take time off or is sick.

Lots of babies crying for more than a few minutes doesn't sound good. Babies do cry, but not all of them together for extended periods.

If your gut tells you it isn't a good place, find somewhere else. There are so many loving responsible babysitters here, find someone better.

amother

Lightyellow

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 7:00 pm

nechama2 wrote:

I didn’t really trust her from the start (babies screaming alone in the room with the cribs and she didn’t seem to notice the sound)
but from the get go I wasn’t thrilled about sending out my baby, so I just told myself that that’s how babysitters are. Also people told me that it’s normal for babies to scream until they get used to it

Not tiny newborns no. Also you might have one or mabe two crying nonstop. But a bunch? Nope!

amother

Mulberry

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 7:20 pm

nechama2 wrote:

I didn’t read everyone’s replies but this is my reaction- OMG!! Sounds like an abusive babysitter!! Completely unacceptable for her to leave (who knows how long she was gone??) and terrible that you could hear babies crying for so long. Do not send your baby back there! My heart breaks for all those babies being neglected at babysitters. How many other babies does she watch? I think you have to tell their mothers what happened

amother

↑ Lightblue

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 7:34 pm

nechama2 wrote:

I didn’t even think about her husband specifically watching them being such a source for concern, for me it was more that she stepped out and left them with someone who wasn’t her. But come to think of it…

So, if I absolutely needed to, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem having him watch them, but would ask consent first if possible.

My main point was, I can't imagine a case I'd need to, WITHOUT notifying parents. And since she answered the phone, she seemed capable of doing so. So that's weird for me.

amother

Cobalt ↓

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 7:40 pm

nechama2 wrote:

It is not normal to let babies scream. Our babies rely on us and are completely helpless without us. It’s ok for a baby to cry a little- that is how they communicate their needs with us- but to leave them crying without actively taking care of their need that will get them to stop crying… I think that’s abuse.
Also what are they supposed to get used to? Being abandoned? That it’s ok for them to sit in a dirty diaper, be hungry, be tired, without their caretaker there to assist?
They’re not getting used to it… they’re learning that crying doesn’t HELP.

amother

↑ Cobalt

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 7:42 pm

amother Mulberry wrote:

I think I agree on your last bit of calling the other mothers- although I’m wondering if should call a Rav first. This MAY have been extenuating circumstances as upsetting as it is

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 9:32 pm

I watched my granddaughter this morning during playgroup hours and she screamed very loud for 2 hours straight until her parents came home.(She's staying at my house since beginning of chol hamoed so it's fair to say she knows me/the house at least a little bit.)
Can you imagine if neighbor decided kids were being neglected and start spreading rumors about me?

I don't think it's fair to call the babysitter "abusive" because you hear screaming thru the door.

How many babies are there? Why are they screaming? Was it just today or every time you go there?
She did something extremely wrong by leaving without warning to parents, not answering phone right away and apparently found an incompetent sub to take over, doesn't mean her business should be shut down...yet!
Her reaction, or rather her lack of, is extremely puzzling.

amother

↑ Yolk ↓

Tue, Oct 29 2024, 9:35 pm

nechama2 wrote:

Not sure it’s so simple…
The reason I turned to imamother was because I had asked several people from my neighborhood and they all told me how wonderful she was and that it’s normal for babies to cry a lot in daycare. I needed to see if there were other opinions.
Also all the parents work and finding an available babysitter at short notice isn’t easy

Please speak to a Rav for guidance. No baby should continue to suffer!

WhatFor ↓

Wed, Oct 30 2024, 6:37 am

amother Royalblue wrote:

I watched my granddaughter this morning during playgroup hours and she screamed very loud for 2 hours straight until her parents came home.(She's staying at my house since beginning of chol hamoed so it's fair to say she knows me/the house at least a little bit.)
Can you imagine if neighbor decided kids were being neglected and start spreading rumors about me? I don't think it's fair to call the babysitter "abusive" because you hear screaming thru the door.

How many babies are there? Why are they screaming? Was it just today or every time you go there?
She did something extremely wrong by leaving without warning to parents, not answering phone right away and apparently found an incompetent sub to take over, doesn't mean her business should be shut down...yet!
Her reaction, or rather her lack of, is extremely puzzling.

What in the world?? Some of these responses... How can you compare the situation to a baby who's just cranky? No one is saying abuse because they heard a baby screaming.

Op heard multiple babies screaming for over ten minutes, she now knows for a fact that the babysitter wasn't answering her phone, and when she finally answered, she wasn't at home! The babysitter left a bunch of babies, and just stepped out. That's 100% insane and it is absolutely, by itself, the reason a so-called daycare needs to be shut down. Someone who does what she did is in no position to be taking in multiple children. It's the mentality behind someone who would do such a thing.

I'd have been so freaked out, I might have called the police when the babysitter didn't answer because I would have thought that something happened to her and she needs urgent help. It would never, in a billion years, occur to me that someone would just step out and leave the babies unattended. Which is what she did, irrespective of the fact that somewhere in the house was an adult who was so unresponsive he didn't even answer the door for ten minutes, never mind the screaming babies. He probably wasn't even on the same floor. This is sickening. They are babies. Terrified helpless babies, abandoned with no one looking after them.

OP please tell the other parents, they have a right to know. And report her, I'm horrified. She doesn't deserve a dime on the backs of helpless little babies. What in the world. I can't believe anyone would give this a second thought.

↑ WhatFor

Wed, Oct 30 2024, 6:46 am

amother Yolk wrote:

10 minutes!! That’s not ok for a baby to cry for 10 minutes. That’s eternity for a baby.
If your a sitter and this is happening you need to hire more help or resign.

I mean, sometimes a baby is teething, overtired, colicky, whatever. For me it's not the fact that a baby is crying. We can't control everything about our children's life experiences. Sometimes they'll cry. But if there's an adult holding them, trying to comfort them, talking to them, rocking or patting them, at least the baby registers that they're cared for during whatever they're going through. That's so important for their psyche, to know they're cared for and not alone.

That's very different from a screaming baby, abandoned completely by a sitter who just decided to step out. I just can't take the thought of it. Poor little babies.