Do you miss America?

amother

↑ Taupe ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 6:45 am

amother Mocha wrote:

The longer I am here, the more I miss certain aspects of life abroad even though I love Israel and appreciate it too as time passes.

I miss having normal shops to go to. I just want normal high street clothing and designer brand names (which I love the quality of and get on sale occasionally like a coat, bag). I've gone years without shopping and I hate it. No fashion sense here.

Also, the culture here is so unrefined. Can't really get used to that. Neighbours are so noisy and are inconsiderate of others. Driving here is insane in frum neihbourhoods especially. People leave their bins scattered all over, I literally hear people Fart in public, pick their noses etc.

People are very close minded here. Talk about Gedolim all the time and they seem not to have a mind of their own. It's very black n white thinking for many. e.g. sheitel length, internet use, clothing for boys can't be too trendy.

Can't get used to the meddling atitude. people are always inserting themselves in situations and conversations when they're not asked because they trying to be helpful. E.g. on public transportation or at the park, they'll offer us their spare ice cream. these people are nice but as a non native, I can't get used to it.

I could not disagree more with this whole post. I live in Israel and do not encounter any of the above issues. Maybe you live in a low quality area. I live in a new development and people are extremely refined.
You want higher standards? So move to an area that reflects that desire. Look up towns in Israel with a high socioeconomic ratio, etc.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 7:21 am

amother Mocha wrote:

There are many many pros to living here but it's hard to give up certain things. To have a overfriendly taxi driver shouting about his political beliefs is really unpleasant. Telling me how to parent my kids etc.

I live in Jerusalem.

I love overfriendly Jerusalem cab drivers LOL

like, talking to the cabbie was one of the highlights of my last trip (he talked about Jerusalem pre-67 and fighting in the Yom Kippur war).

But at the same time, I do get what you're saying, and I don't think it's unreasonable. Cultures can be very different! And it can be very uncomfortable to be in a culture that doesn't match yours, things feel too loud/quiet/talkative/cold/whatever all the time.

(Some of what you're saying is community-specific but honestly knowing that probably isn't going to help you, it's not like you're going to switch to a wealthy MO community just to escape littering and talk of gedolim.)

I think you deserve tremendous schar for sticking it out in EY even when it's extra hard because of the cultural barriers.

↑ ora_43

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 7:34 am

amother Taupe wrote:

I live in Israel and encounter at least a few of them. I think crazy driving and people being unconcerned with meddling if they're trying to help are pretty much universal.

(most people are actually considerate drivers; the problem is, it only takes a few to ruin things)

(OTOH the last time I was in the states, I was stuck behind a driver going 25mph when the speed limit was 45 for several minutes, before realizing that if I didn't honk at him, nobody was going to (I honked, he glared, I realized I had become the pushy, in-a-rush Israeli driver, I didn't care because he finally started going 45). upsides and downsides)

A higher-class neighborhood would probably not have issues with people leaving (garbage?) bags around or picking their noses in public, but it would also be very expensive.

A non-hareidi neighborhood wouldn't have issues with black-and-white thinking over sheitel length but also wouldn't have the education that amother probably wants for her kids.

amother

Brickred

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 7:46 am

As someone who lived in EY (yes, I made Aliyah), but moved back to America (when the kids were small), not sure if I get to opine but I'll give my 2 cents anyways...

I did find the culture to be very different which was challenging. And more than that, I actually wanted to move back for my kids - I saw so many struggling 'American Israelis' and though I was fully immersed in the "Israeli system', it got me worried...
At this point with kids of various ages, I look back and I'm so so grateful we moved back to America. I see many American Israeli kids and though I shouldn't compare, I feel the Israeli kids are somewhat more independent which lead to other things - including haircuts that they choose and clothing etc.. frankly my american kids are more refined from what I can see (though I agree part is personality), and dressed likewise too!
My husband believes that the chinuch/learning style of the bachurim here is better - there he feels they are a bit more shallow. For context, I'm very Yeshivish.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 8:57 am

ora_43 wrote:

Oh you make me smile, about the pushy Israeli driver style you unconsciously adopted Very Happy

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 9:18 am

amother Mocha wrote:

Honestly, I am glad I didn't post under my screen name.

To clarify, it's not about the ice cream, it's about the culture behind it. Very meddling. I like to mind my own business. When I do need the help, I don't get it like struggling with a stroller.

We have our neighbour comment how he heard our baby scream all night. I can't imagine getting such a comment from where I come.

There are many many pros to living here but it's hard to give up certain things. To have a overfriendly taxi driver shouting about his political beliefs is really unpleasant. Telling me how to parent my kids etc.

I live in Jerusalem.

Taxi drivers are a category of their own, quite burly sometimes but they don't mean any harm and they belong to the category of people who will help you out if you are in a difficult situation.
When you need help with your stroller just ask and I'm sure a couple of people will assist you (unless they start to argue between themselves, each one insisting they will give you a better help Smile

grace413

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 10:06 am

America is a great place to go shopping and visit people who live there. I love the big parking spots there. The prices are better for most things.

That said, I'm so happy that I live in Israel. People here are more down to earth and not materialistic. Nobody pays attention to how many times I wore a dress to shul or how old my car is.

Not to mention that Israel is the real deal, where we are meant to be, our true home.

amother

Beige

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 2:57 pm

I missed it for years. But not in a homesick way for years. Just very nostalgic. I missed it a lot but I also liked my life here. I think America had some things that were better and Israel has other things that are better, and nowhere is perfect.

Living here is a choice, and it was a choice I made every day (now I've been here over 2 decades, so it is just a given now). I didn't choose Israel because it was the best or the only place for me, I chose it because I felt it was where I wanted to be - and while there was a part of me that really missed America and wanted to be there too, I chose Israel again and again and I am so glad I did. I will always have a little bit of America in me, and Israel is my home now too.

amother

↑ Taupe

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 3:03 pm

amother Brickred wrote:

At this point with kids of various ages, I look back and I'm so so grateful we moved back to America. I see many American Israeli kids and though I shouldn't compare, I feel the Israeli kids are somewhat more independent which lead to other things - including haircuts that they choose and clothing etc.. frankly my american kids are more refined from what I can see (though I agree part is personality), and dressed likewise too!
My husband believes that the chinuch/learning style of the bachurim here is better - there he feels they are a bit more shallow. For context, I'm very Yeshivish.

What a gross generalization… halevai if you were able to see instead the Israelis and anglos in Israel who learn beautifully as opposed to only seeing what you and your husband don’t like.

amother

Orchid

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 9:20 pm

amother Brickred wrote:

This is definitely community specific. Out of your community, these issues do not exist.

↑ DrMom ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 10:35 pm

I also think things have improved significantly here in Israel over the past 10 years or so.

Israel used to have a bad reputation for horrible red tape, long lines, bureaucracy, etc.

Now I find it to be quite efficient, and that's mostly an outgrowth of the high-tech boom. You used to have to wait in long lines to receive packages in the mail, now I get things delivered to my door. The airport used to be old-fashioned and inefficient; now I zoom through in a few minutes, passport control takes a few seconds, and I can hang out in a pretty duty-free shopping mall while I wait for my flight to board. It's way better than most US airports.

Produce in the stores is good, there is lots of variety.

The country is more family-oriented than the US, and of course, I get Jewish holidays off.

There are Jews from so many different backgrounds here.

There are pretty national parks, from deserts to forests to springs. True, they are less majestic than US parks like the Grand Canyon or Bryce or Mt. Rainer, but they are also within a few hours drive from home and very affordable.

In general, I see many positive things about life here.

Debbie

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 10:58 pm

My husband and I made aliyah from England four years ago.
To be honest it's taken me most of that time to feel content here as I missed our old home and life, but most of all I miss my nearest and dearest, including daughters and granddaughters.
There are things I can't get here which I miss
I.e whipped cream cheese; petty I know,but it would be nice.
As for nice clothes, BH I have found plenty of those....probably too many
I do wish that there was a Manny's or similar bookshop closer to Tzfat; I love books.
If someone were to ask me if I would like to go and live back in England, I would probably tell them that I love visiting but my dream is for my family and friends to come here. Bezrat Hashem some day soon.

↑ essie14

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 11:13 pm

DrMom wrote:

Yes yes yes
One major example - if you're American and have had to renew your passport, it's a full day affair, nearly impossible to get an appointment in the first place, and takes hours at the embassy.
In contrast, when you need to renew your Israeli passport, you fill out the info online and pay before you get there. And you're in and out in literally a few minutes.

Arriving in the US as an American citizen still requires a long wait on line. Arriving in Israel is super quick. If you have no luggage you can literally be outside in 10 minutes. Scan your passport and done.

I find that Israel embraces hi tech more quickly and bureaucracy has lessened so much.
As you said, most packages are delivered to my door.
I can do almost everything online - upload documents to BTL, send messages to the bank (used to wait an hour just to talk to a bank manager in person), and so many other things.

I love the Healthcare system. I do everything on the kupah app or via email.

↑ DrMom ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 11:37 pm

amother Watermelon wrote:

isn't a personal opinion just that?
why debate with others or dismiss or judge their experience and opinion?
different people different opinions
that is what Op asked for
no one size fits all

Okay, and I shared my opinion.

I am also free to have a conversation with someone. If someone says, "I am miserable living in the US because it is too cold for me when the temperature drops below 32°F as it does every winter," there is nothing wrong with pointing out that there are locations in the US (Honolulu, Phoenix, LA, etc.) where this is not the case.

In fact, it might be useful to others reading the thread who are unfamiliar with the US to know this information.

amother

Amber

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 11:56 pm

Moved almost exactly two years ago...
And I really don't miss it.
Are there some things here that are less convenient? Yes. We traded the gashmius for ruchnius.
Is it hard to be far from family? Definitely! But we facetime multiple times a week and see them in person once a year for a week or two.
Like some others said, I LOVE my life here and even hesitate to go back to the US for visits-- I am just so thrilled to be living here that I have a hard time leaving.

↑ DrMom

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 1:38 am

ora_43 wrote:

It's funny but I kind of get it. Some cultures are very focused on not bothering other people. The downside is that they're less likely to proactively offer help, or to form strong community bonds.

Other cultures are very focused on friendliness and helping others, very "we're all family," but the downside is that one person's "I'm enjoying my life and happy to help others" is another person's "your music is too loud and I don't know you, please go away."

Sounds like that amother is from a very "Bothering People is the worst; don't bother me and I won't bother you" culture, while Israel is toward the opposite end of the spectrum (and hareidi and arab communities in Israel are the far opposite end, very community-focused with little concern over bothering).

ITA with this.

Also, you cannot expect people to know you want them to help you with a stroller but not know that you will take offense if they offer you ice cream.

↑ Bnei Berak 10

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 2:59 am

DrMom wrote:

ITA 100%
About Ben Gurion apt in the past: I'll never forget returning to Israel on a Thursday in August peak season back in the 90's. It took me close to two hours to finally enter, get my suitcase and go through customs Can't Believe It

That was the efficiency

amother

Dahlia ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 3:23 am

amother OP wrote:

For those that have moved to Israel after being settled in America for a long time- do you miss America? Do you feel homesick ? Like you just want your old life back?
We’re thinking about moving - but I do like my life in America and I am worried about feeling sad that I lost my life. Any thoughts?

Yes I do. All the time. So much. It's okay. It's normal.
Then I remind myself why I'm here and reinspire myself to stay.