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amother
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 Fri, May 24 2019, 6:54 am
Nicole, that’s really cool that they are so understanding and accommodating, and you obviously pull your weight.
I’m curious what Anniversary Day is?? My school has a rule that if a student is absent (unexcused) on the day of prom, then they are not allowed to attend prom. The admins bring the attendance list to prom so they can check it when kids arrive. The kids still have 6 hours from school ending to prom starting so they have plenty of time to get ready.
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nicole81
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Sun, May 26 2019, 2:52 am
| amother [ Blonde ] wrote: | Nicole, that’s really cool that they are so understanding and accommodating, and you obviously pull your weight.
I’m curious what Anniversary Day is?? My school has a rule that if a student is absent (unexcused) on the day of prom, then they are not allowed to attend prom. The admins bring the attendance list to prom so they can check it when kids arrive. The kids still have 6 hours from school ending to prom starting so they have plenty of time to get ready. |
Anniversary Day is just another name for Brooklyn-Queens Day.
Maybe I'm a big softie, but 6 hours minus the commute home and to the prom only leaves them with about 4 hours to get ready. My girls (and some boys) get full weaves put in and cut and styled, acrylics done, and their makeup professionally done. For kids who take the bus and subway, shuffling back and forth between all these appointments and home sounds very rushed and stressful. I really would not begrudge them a day off to prepare for what is, for them, the biggest and most showiest night of their lives thus far. In theory, I like what your admins do, but I wouldn't have the heart to do that for prom! For other events, though, students are not allowed to participate if they were not in school that day. So we just avoid having to make that judgment call by holding prom on the evening of a non-attendance day 
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amother
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Sun, May 26 2019, 8:30 am
| nicole81 wrote: | Anniversary Day is just another name for Brooklyn-Queens Day.
Maybe I'm a big softie, but 6 hours minus the commute home and to the prom only leaves them with about 4 hours to get ready. My girls (and some boys) get full weaves put in and cut and styled, acrylics done, and their makeup professionally done. For kids who take the bus and subway, shuffling back and forth between all these appointments and home sounds very rushed and stressful. I really would not begrudge them a day off to prepare for what is, for them, the biggest and most showiest night of their lives thus far. In theory, I like what your admins do, but I wouldn't have the heart to do that for prom! For other events, though, students are not allowed to participate if they were not in school that day. So we just avoid having to make that judgment call by holding prom on the evening of a non-attendance day |
Lol I’ve never heard of Brooklyn-Queens day either since I’m not from NY. To play devils advocate: I think a lot of our students get their nails done a day or so before. Theres no reason they can’t get that done in advance. But we are not in NY and they use cars to get around.
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amother
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Sun, May 26 2019, 9:38 am
| amother [ Blonde ] wrote: | | Lol I’ve never heard of Brooklyn-Queens day either since I’m not from NY. To play devils advocate: I think a lot of our students get their nails done a day or so before. Theres no reason they can’t get that done in advance. But we are not in NY and they use cars to get around. |
Brooklyn-Queens Day is a day that used to be an off day for staff from Brooklyn and Queens, but not the other boroughs. Now, it's a student off day, but all staff from the 5 boroughs have an in-service day. It's part of the ever-increasing givebacks each time we get a new contract.
Last edited by amother on Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 7:21 am
| smileforamile wrote: | | Brooklyn-Queens Day is a day that used to be an off day for staff from Brooklyn and Queens, but not the other boroughs. Now, it's a student off day, but all staff from the 5 boroughs have an in-service day. It's part of the ever-increasing givebacks each time we get a new contract. |
So interesting, never heard of it. What’s the point of it???
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nicole81
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Tue, May 28 2019, 7:58 am
| amother [ Blonde ] wrote: | | So interesting, never heard of it. What’s the point of it??? |
Supposedly staff development. As for the holiday itself, I Wikied it because I had no idea myself!
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 8:28 am
| nicole81 wrote: | | Supposedly staff development. As for the holiday itself, I Wikied it because I had no idea myself! |
It’s funny how when you grow up with an idea or you’ve been surrounded by it for so long you don’t even think about what’s behind it. Sometimes I’m “jealous” of baalei teshuva because they question everything they see and know why they do what they do.
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amother
Lime
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Tue, May 28 2019, 11:02 am
| amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote: | OP here.
Tysm Nicole! I still haven't made any decisions yet. I might take you up on your offer of pm. |
I've taught high school and middle school in NYC and agree with smileforamile as I've had the same experience and I can tell you that obviously nicoles experience is her experience, I just want to point out that she is administration so I dont agree that she can really say the union is supportive. Maybe her school is "extra special" such that they are supportive or...but in my experience, schools have not been happy about accomodating leaving early Fridays(I get home right before shabbos) (other non teacher titles have had easier times being accomodated). And, the union is not good at enforcing any rights but they do push for better salaries and health insurance.
Also, groisamomma said she doesn't know what smileforamile was talking about tenure. Wel, let me tell you that it used to be principals had to give tenure like groisamomma said but now its different. Now, principals in NYC many times prolong your probation time so tenure is not guaranteed and they are only allowed to give a certain number of teachers tenure per year. Also, the pension that everyone talks about being good IS NOT AS GOOD FOR PPL JOININGNOW. I heard my colleagues talking but you can ask Uft or look online but its really not as good.
Furthermore, many teachers in my school are unhappy and experience what smileforamile wrote about. Groisamomma seems to have a different experience in nonnyc school, but first, in NYC public schools, the supervisors are always changing how the plans should be and how your teaching should be etc such that there is a ton of prep/papework/phone calls... Groisamomma makes it seem like "if you know the subject, you can do all,the prep in work" yes, for her it works and she's lucky. But, in NYC public schools, they tell you every little detail of how to teach and what they expect....and the curriculum changes such that it takes a lot of time to prep all the plans/all the things they expect you to write (and it takes long time such that prep time in work is not enough)
Furthermore, kids can have cell phones and curse....but they'll say its all classroom management because few schools (I've worked in a few) enforce the rules in discipline code especially since the school doesn't want to be labeled as bad...
Listening to an admin is ....because one of the reasons most teachers change to become administrators is because it's horrible in the classroom(otherwise why not be a teacher as principals do get more money but...) as there's no support just micromanagement and your entire career and license is in the hand of an administrator who usually doesn't teach your subject and has been a teacher less than you.(now, at least students progress gets counted for our rating which is good but they may change that).
My colleague used the Sam lesson plan she used in the suburbs(her suburb principal rated it highly effective) but our principal in NYC rated it developing. Its subjective and they can ruin your career.
I met a lot of teachers from long island and Westchester....who teach in NYC because its very hard to get jobs in suburbs and they also lay off when they run out of money...
Teaching 20 yrs ago is nothing like today. Now you must teach as a facilitator such that students learn in groups from their peers which is opposite how we learned and opposite of how professors in college teach. So, I'm not telling you what to do but it wil be a big big change for you. And, pls don't think you'll get home early and have summers off so its great. You'll be working every evening n weekend to prep grade....and in high school if you get the older kids, behavior is not as bad as in middle school but there's usually more prep and they may change what you teach from year to year which is more prep.
Also, please note supervisors all schools have different resources. Some schools have smartboards and elmos...others don't. The access to technology makes a big difference. Also, some schools make you bring your own paper or supplies even though they are supposed to provide(but most union reps are in bed with admin and say nothing and some are written up).
Recently, the schools have become a culture where students are learning that they could make up lies about teachers and admin would "prove" it true because they are scared of the parents who have power to "311" them and cause them to be removed...
I do like working with students and know how to break material down but students are being moved on to the next grade without being on grade level, so its a challenge to teach rigourously and up to grade level but at the same time differentiate to meet the low levelneeds of where students are at.
And, the worst part is that the nycdoe has made the schools all about numbers and data which means its really not about teaching the students but more about getting good data to make the school look good. The administrators do need to act like this too and treat students as if they are robots/numbers/a score.
However, even with all the above, there are some teachers who have good classes or great support and dont have to stress because they know their administrator will rate them well.
I know ppl who started teaching as a second career and principals do like those teachers because they are cheaper. I meet a lot of teachers who changed careers and came with the fellows program. So, overall, please know what you would be getting yourself into, and maybe you'll be the "lucky one" to get honor students, administrative support, technology/resources, and ac(a lot of classrooms have no ac)...maybe you'll have a different experience.
Hatzlacha with whatever you choose to do.
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amother
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Tue, May 28 2019, 11:48 am
| amother [ Lime ] wrote: | I've taught high school and middle school in NYC and agree with smileforamile as I've had the same experience and I can tell you that obviously nicoles experience is her experience, I just want to point out that she is administration so I dont agree that she can really say the union is supportive. Maybe her school is "extra special" such that they are supportive or...but in my experience, schools have not been happy about accomodating leaving early Fridays(I get home right before shabbos) (other non teacher titles have had easier times being accomodated). And, the union is not good at enforcing any rights but they do push for better salaries and health insurance.
Also, groisamomma said she doesn't know what smileforamile was talking about tenure. Wel, let me tell you that it used to be principals had to give tenure like groisamomma said but now its different. Now, principals in NYC many times prolong your probation time so tenure is not guaranteed and they are only allowed to give a certain number of teachers tenure per year. Also, the pension that everyone talks about being good IS NOT AS GOOD FOR PPL JOININGNOW. I heard my colleagues talking but you can ask Uft or look online but its really not as good.
Furthermore, many teachers in my school are unhappy and experience what smileforamile wrote about. Groisamomma seems to have a different experience in nonnyc school, but first, in NYC public schools, the supervisors are always changing how the plans should be and how your teaching should be etc such that there is a ton of prep/papework/phone calls... Groisamomma makes it seem like "if you know the subject, you can do all,the prep in work" yes, for her it works and she's lucky. But, in NYC public schools, they tell you every little detail of how to teach and what they expect....and the curriculum changes such that it takes a lot of time to prep all the plans/all the things they expect you to write (and it takes long time such that prep time in work is not enough)
Furthermore, kids can have cell phones and curse....but they'll say its all classroom management because few schools (I've worked in a few) enforce the rules in discipline code especially since the school doesn't want to be labeled as bad...
Listening to an admin is ....because one of the reasons most teachers change to become administrators is because it's horrible in the classroom(otherwise why not be a teacher as principals do get more money but...) as there's no support just micromanagement and your entire career and license is in the hand of an administrator who usually doesn't teach your subject and has been a teacher less than you.(now, at least students progress gets counted for our rating which is good but they may change that).
My colleague used the Sam lesson plan she used in the suburbs(her suburb principal rated it highly effective) but our principal in NYC rated it developing. Its subjective and they can ruin your career.
I met a lot of teachers from long island and Westchester....who teach in NYC because its very hard to get jobs in suburbs and they also lay off when they run out of money...
Teaching 20 yrs ago is nothing like today. Now you must teach as a facilitator such that students learn in groups from their peers which is opposite how we learned and opposite of how professors in college teach. So, I'm not telling you what to do but it wil be a big big change for you. And, pls don't think you'll get home early and have summers off so its great. You'll be working every evening n weekend to prep grade....and in high school if you get the older kids, behavior is not as bad as in middle school but there's usually more prep and they may change what you teach from year to year which is more prep.
Also, please note supervisors all schools have different resources. Some schools have smartboards and elmos...others don't. The access to technology makes a big difference. Also, some schools make you bring your own paper or supplies even though they are supposed to provide(but most union reps are in bed with admin and say nothing and some are written up).
Recently, the schools have become a culture where students are learning that they could make up lies about teachers and admin would "prove" it true because they are scared of the parents who have power to "311" them and cause them to be removed...
I do like working with students and know how to break material down but students are being moved on to the next grade without being on grade level, so its a challenge to teach rigourously and up to grade level but at the same time differentiate to meet the low levelneeds of where students are at.
And, the worst part is that the nycdoe has made the schools all about numbers and data which means its really not about teaching the students but more about getting good data to make the school look good. The administrators do need to act like this too and treat students as if they are robots/numbers/a score.
However, even with all the above, there are some teachers who have good classes or great support and dont have to stress because they know their administrator will rate them well.
I know ppl who started teaching as a second career and principals do like those teachers because they are cheaper. I meet a lot of teachers who changed careers and came with the fellows program. So, overall, please know what you would be getting yourself into, and maybe you'll be the "lucky one" to get honor students, administrative support, technology/resources, and ac(a lot of classrooms have no ac)...maybe you'll have a different experience.
Hatzlacha with whatever you choose to do. |
What a disheartening post but I VERY much appreciate hearing a different perspective. Lots here to think about
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amother
Blue
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Tue, May 28 2019, 1:44 pm
| amother [ Lime ] wrote: | I've taught high school and middle school in NYC and agree with smileforamile as I've had the same experience and I can tell you that obviously nicoles experience is her experience, I just want to point out that she is administration so I dont agree that she can really say the union is supportive. Maybe her school is "extra special" such that they are supportive or...but in my experience, schools have not been happy about accomodating leaving early Fridays(I get home right before shabbos) (other non teacher titles have had easier times being accomodated). And, the union is not good at enforcing any rights but they do push for better salaries and health insurance.
Also, groisamomma said she doesn't know what smileforamile was talking about tenure. Wel, let me tell you that it used to be principals had to give tenure like groisamomma said but now its different. Now, principals in NYC many times prolong your probation time so tenure is not guaranteed and they are only allowed to give a certain number of teachers tenure per year. Also, the pension that everyone talks about being good IS NOT AS GOOD FOR PPL JOININGNOW. I heard my colleagues talking but you can ask Uft or look online but its really not as good.
Furthermore, many teachers in my school are unhappy and experience what smileforamile wrote about. Groisamomma seems to have a different experience in nonnyc school, but first, in NYC public schools, the supervisors are always changing how the plans should be and how your teaching should be etc such that there is a ton of prep/papework/phone calls... Groisamomma makes it seem like "if you know the subject, you can do all,the prep in work" yes, for her it works and she's lucky. But, in NYC public schools, they tell you every little detail of how to teach and what they expect....and the curriculum changes such that it takes a lot of time to prep all the plans/all the things they expect you to write (and it takes long time such that prep time in work is not enough)
Furthermore, kids can have cell phones and curse....but they'll say its all classroom management because few schools (I've worked in a few) enforce the rules in discipline code especially since the school doesn't want to be labeled as bad...
Listening to an admin is ....because one of the reasons most teachers change to become administrators is because it's horrible in the classroom(otherwise why not be a teacher as principals do get more money but...) as there's no support just micromanagement and your entire career and license is in the hand of an administrator who usually doesn't teach your subject and has been a teacher less than you.(now, at least students progress gets counted for our rating which is good but they may change that).
My colleague used the Sam lesson plan she used in the suburbs(her suburb principal rated it highly effective) but our principal in NYC rated it developing. Its subjective and they can ruin your career.
I met a lot of teachers from long island and Westchester....who teach in NYC because its very hard to get jobs in suburbs and they also lay off when they run out of money...
Teaching 20 yrs ago is nothing like today. Now you must teach as a facilitator such that students learn in groups from their peers which is opposite how we learned and opposite of how professors in college teach. So, I'm not telling you what to do but it wil be a big big change for you. And, pls don't think you'll get home early and have summers off so its great. You'll be working every evening n weekend to prep grade....and in high school if you get the older kids, behavior is not as bad as in middle school but there's usually more prep and they may change what you teach from year to year which is more prep.
Also, please note supervisors all schools have different resources. Some schools have smartboards and elmos...others don't. The access to technology makes a big difference. Also, some schools make you bring your own paper or supplies even though they are supposed to provide(but most union reps are in bed with admin and say nothing and some are written up).
Recently, the schools have become a culture where students are learning that they could make up lies about teachers and admin would "prove" it true because they are scared of the parents who have power to "311" them and cause them to be removed...
I do like working with students and know how to break material down but students are being moved on to the next grade without being on grade level, so its a challenge to teach rigourously and up to grade level but at the same time differentiate to meet the low levelneeds of where students are at.
And, the worst part is that the nycdoe has made the schools all about numbers and data which means its really not about teaching the students but more about getting good data to make the school look good. The administrators do need to act like this too and treat students as if they are robots/numbers/a score.
However, even with all the above, there are some teachers who have good classes or great support and dont have to stress because they know their administrator will rate them well.
I know ppl who started teaching as a second career and principals do like those teachers because they are cheaper. I meet a lot of teachers who changed careers and came with the fellows program. So, overall, please know what you would be getting yourself into, and maybe you'll be the "lucky one" to get honor students, administrative support, technology/resources, and ac(a lot of classrooms have no ac)...maybe you'll have a different experience.
Hatzlacha with whatever you choose to do. |
Former high school teacher here. Everything you said is true and to the point. I taught for many years. Teaching was a wonderful, fulfilling experience but the nycdoe turned everything around about 10 years ago.
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trixx
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Tue, May 28 2019, 2:03 pm
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See @teachermisery on Instagram - and more importantly read the comments on each post - to see what working in public schools is really like.
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