is everyone really a size 2

↑ Barbara

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 4:03 pm

Maya wrote:

I was a size 0-2 when I got married ten years ago. I am now a significantly bigger size.

I try to lose some weight while still not letting my size define who I am. I know that people close to me are "disappointed" with how I turned out, and judge me for not getting back to the size 0-2 after I had my kids.

I have never met Maya in person, or even chatted with her aside from posts on this forum. With that caveat ...

You are an intelligent, kind and thoughtful woman. Anyone who would be "disappointed" in you -- much less "disappointed" based on your dress size -- is a yutz.

gp2.0

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 4:10 pm

My thinnest ever "comfortable" size (meaning I wasn't starving myself) was 140 with height of 5'4. So that's like a size 8?

I can never - really, never - be a size 2 and I'm okay with that. My body is curvy and honestly I kind of like having curves. Plus having a wider build makes me much stronger, I enjoy physically strenuous activities like lifting heavy things and pushing a lawn mower. My life is defined by so much more than my dress size.

Honestly I don't even know my dress size right now. And I don't care.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 4:24 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

I'm 5'5 and 150, so pretty much a size 8. I am, however, exercising and eating no more than 1500 calories a day. I'm over 50 so staying this size takes extra effort. I'd rather be smaller, but just for ME. I look good and Tznius makes covering my muffin-top pretty easily.

I do not diet on Shabbat, it's my "cheat" day. I'm not measuring how large my piece of kugel is... Having the cheat day, actually, makes the normal days much easier.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 6:40 pm

debsey wrote:

This is SO true! I once was working in a school with a girl who had repeated tznius violations - and she said "well, if I was pretty and skinny like....and she named a few girls - I would be able to wear the kind of clothes they wear. But these are the only clothes that look good on me"
Aside from the obvious work we needed to do on her self-esteem, she actually had a good point. She DID look dramatically better in the clothes that didn't conform to the dress code!
I think those of us who have this issue just have to get extra schar for this!

Thank you Debsey. Of course you had no way of knowing, but I had a tearful shopping trip today when I couldnt find anything I felt was tznius enough. You reminded me that Hashem is watching, He put me in this body, He knows of all my exhausting efforts despite my imperfections in this matter.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 8:08 pm

debsey wrote:

compare this:
to the first "amother" - people like you have a right to be offended by this thread, because you're not one of those women who use her size to make others feel bad. Look at the comment I quoted after you. I've been in my share of dressing rooms like that, where a woman is loudly drawing attention to her flat stomach and size 2-ness, simply to show off.

Wow. I don't have a flat stomach or a size 2 body, but at least I'm fairly secure.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 8:12 pm

amother wrote:

Hugs!
I am curious, though. Can you or Debsey share specific styles that are challenges for us big people tznius-wise?

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 8:26 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Hugs!
I am curious, though. Can you or Debsey share specific styles that are challenges for us big people tznius-wise?

Thanks. My butt and thighs are very shall I say shapely. As I mentioned before if I was in a culture that likes that kind of thing it would be great and very easy to get dressed, but I dont want my tush popping out. It's SO hard to find skirts that are tznius, every time I think I have one I catch a glimpse of myself in a mirror and realize either it's too tight or its loose but you can still see a jiggly booty beneath, lol it sounds funny as I say it but I feel uncomfortable so often. If I wear a skirt of a very heavy fabric and control top tights underneath then it looks good but I really dont want to do that because im a SAHM and I want to feel comfortable all the time.

Another issue which I don't have but is similar is women with very big chests, which also makes it really hard to find something that looks flattering and tznius. Iremember being in school and the girls who got in trouble for wearing tops that were too tight were the one who were well-endowed, never the tiny girls, everything looked refined on them. Funny how something can be a blessing in one culture but a curse in another.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 8:57 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Hugs!
I am curious, though. Can you or Debsey share specific styles that are challenges for us big people tznius-wise?

I can't find a button-front blouse that doesn't gap. Every single one of my shirts has safety pins between the buttons. It doesn't matter how roomy the shirt is. It can be three sizes too big and it will still gap between the second, third and fourth buttons. And anything knit is much too clingy.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:49 pm

amother wrote:

Oh, this I get. I wear A-shirts or the like under most of my blouses.
As for skirts, I can't overthink things but I don't wear pencil skirts, I generally wear long and full; I love all the skirts I was seeing everywhere this summer, knit and poly. If I can't wear those I can't wear anything.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:55 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

I actually believe that distorted hashkafas of tznius and halachos kashrus really create a "wonderful foundation" for a girl to obsess over her size/weight and/or to develop an eating disorder. I'm not saying that Hollywood does not, but I believe that the restrictions allow for someone to create their own idea of more restrictions. You would be surprised how many frum men have severe eating disorders because they do not want to eat food, for they perceive it as giving into to one's tayvas. I had a professor who was pretty into the above concept, which really opened my eyes to it, but it seems to ring true to what I have personally witnessed. You may feel differently, and that is fine, just please do not twist around my words or become outraged.

I can't really say much about the size-obsession thing in general, but, as someone who has anorexia, I must say I disagree with the idea that living a lifestyle that includes religious restrictions on food encourages excessive restriction of food intake or other eating-disorder behaviors. I think that notion is built on the myth that eating disorders are about food and eating. They are not.
Behaviors and attitudes about eating are just the ways people with EDs expresses their feelings. Eating disorders occur in every culture, even in those that do not prize feminine thinness! There is a great website called www.scienceofeds.org that has many articles and abstracts of studies about this very topic. In one notable study, researchers compared young women in Tehran with women from California of Iranian descent, and found few significant differences in ED attitudes or behavior, despite the fact that they grew up in different cultures, and the Tehranian women had to obey laws restricting their dress and activities.
Each person with ED just contextualizes his or her behaviors with ideas that are prevalent in the surrounding culture. So, for example, an American female anorexic might say that she wants to be thin so she can achieve a certain look (though that is not the real reason deep down, and many anorexics would not even say that at all). But another anorexic from a different culture might explain his or her behavior in terms of asceticism, or penance for guilt, or claim the issue is physiological, or something else.

↑ debsey ↓

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:41 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Hugs!
I am curious, though. Can you or Debsey share specific styles that are challenges for us big people tznius-wise?

Sometimes, if you are a bit chunkier, wearing a more form fitting top makes you look slimmer than wearing a loose fitting one, which can just make you look like a triangle. But some people feel form-fitting clothes are not tznius. Again, it's an individual sensitivity thing.
I know I look much better when I wear belts. My hips look curvy, rather than being so obviously disproportionate. I can't explain it - but the belt just makes my whole figure look neater and more proportional. One particular style of belt that looks extremely good on me just doesn't sit right with my internal "tznius-o-meter". I feel uncomfortably showy when I'm wearing it. So I struggle with not wearing it.
Shorter skirts can also make your legs look longer......
etc.
The girl I referenced before, with her repeated dress code violations, had the kind of face that looked completely washed out with no makeup, but really striking with makeup. With makeup, her face looked shapely and without, she just look (in her own words) "like a blobby potato" And she wasn't wrong. Her face needed the definition that makeup gave her.

↑ debsey

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:43 pm

amother wrote:

BTDT! I have been in my share of tearful dressing room moments.
I have no idea what I'm wearing over Y"T yet! I know where you're coming from, but it IS Chodesh Elul. A few extra zechusim (and tears) won't go amiss.......I'm glad my post gave you chizzuk.