Detention is punishment for parents

amother

Ballota ↓

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 6:55 am

amother Emerald wrote:

It's supposed to be inconvenient so you actually care about how your child behaves. Otherwise parents wouldn't care at all and it would all be on the school. You're the oarent, you're responsible to raise your child so they behave like a decent person. If they don't, you gotta deal with the consequences.
And to the person who wrote the teacher can't control a classroom... that's exactly the type of parents... blaming it all on the teacher. A well raised child behaves even with a teacher who can't control a classroom. Plenty of kids behave well. And those who don't..It's bad parenting or ADHD or some other issue. Teachers are supposed to TEACH. Not having to control kids. It's not a zoo, it's a school.

I’m sorry this has very very little to do with parenting. I have two DDs in a row, one is super mentchlic beautiful midos, the second has a much harder time with that kind of thing. She is constantly being punished at school.
Tell me please how I’m raising the first one right but not the second one, please tell me how this is about me and my parenting

amother

Chambray

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 7:01 am

amother Emerald wrote:

This is completely untrue.
A child is still a child. If the teacher has no idea how to be a teacher it is 100 percent the school and teacher's fault. I have a child ( lower elementary grade) that did so well last year. His teacher said that he was one of the best students he ever had. My son was a mentch and learned well. This year his teacher has no idea what to do with anyone. Multiple kids are sent out of the classroom a day. My child doesn't learn and hates going to school. Yesterday my son got sent out of the classroom and I only blame his teacher. This teacher should not be a teacher. My child knows what good behavior is but when there is absolutely no control and every child does whatever he wants I don't blame the children. I think every single child in his class has gotten punished so far.

amother

↑ Winterberry ↓

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 7:37 am

Detention and a paying school "bail" to redeem your child is not in tune with any way to educating a child. Children and parents equally should find another school that doesn't resort to this type of pedagogy. It's as if no one there ever took an education course because I have never seen a good school do this that is described, nor an education course encourage this attitude.

keym ↓

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:08 am

The problem is that I (as a parent) can talk to my child until I'm blue in the face.
But I can't CONTROL my child.
And detention is used as an one size fits all punishment.
Kid ditched a class? Detention
Chew gum in class? Detention
Came late for davening? Detention
Uniform infractions? Detention

I can try to educate to explain. But I can't control. And detention ends up just driving as a wedge between parent and child.

The school 'punishes' the parent hoping they will get the child to behave better. But the child, as a teenager, is their own person.

But in general I feel this way when schools call parents of upper elementary and high school (bar mitzvah and up) to have the parents MAKE the kids behave.
Like how? They're their own person

amother

Pear ↓

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:15 am

amother Ballota wrote:

ITA.
I have kids who went thru the school system without ever getting a single detention, with barely a blip on the radar. You think I'm a perfect parent, or did Hashem create those kids with easier natures/personalities?
Now I have a high school teen with ADD. Child tries REALLY hard and then vents to me that she messes up no matter what. Her compliance grade is in danger, she has sat detention. They seat her in front of the teacher's nose, she got kicked out because the girl next to her was talking to her. She tries to schedule a time to talk to the teacher about something, and the next teacher marks her late or absent. She just gets into trouble no matter what, and managing it all is difficult for her, her brain isn't wired that way. Now she feels like exploding (and she has always tried hard to be Derech Eretzdik.)
There are some kids that the system really doesn't work well for.
And I'm stuck as a parent listening, validating, trying to encourage her to not reach the boiling point.
Can't wait for high school to end.

amother

Nutmeg

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:22 am

Detention is lazy chinuch on the schools part.
It’s hard to understand how schools are still using this nowadays.

It’s embarrassing for the schools and shows a disrespect for the actual student.

It does nothing to actually care for and be mechanech the student.

amother

Carnation ↓

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:32 am

I don’t like the idea of detentions and fines but I understand the schools’ perspective. For those strongly against, what solutions would you suggest the schools use as a deterrent or consequence?

The hard truth is if a child can’t behave, and rewards don’t work and consequences don’t work and parents are admitting they can’t do anything to improve behaviors- then honestly, that child does not belong in a mainstream school and their attendance and disruptions are at the expense of other children in the classroom.

amother

Broom ↓

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:33 am

amother Emerald wrote:

Not really. It's lazy chinuch on the schools part. We aren't talking about elementary students here, we are talking about teens.

You can talk yourself blue in the face, but the kid can choose not to listen. Not much the parents can do in this picture.

amother

↑ Broom ↓

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:35 am

amother Carnation wrote:

Do something that impacts the kid during school time. Have the clean the lunchroom, or organize the supply closets, lose a privilege to attend something etc.

amother

Clear

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:35 am

I grew up in public school
In my school detention was in school suspension
It was during school hours
In the morning the students needed to do school work from the missed classes
In the afternoon they were put to work cleaning the cafeteria or kitchen
No one wanted that work

Students went home on the school bus

amother

↑ Ballota

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:35 am

amother Carnation wrote:

Natural consequence. Leave the classroom, don’t participate in something fun, have to help a teacher during lunch etc

amother

↑ Broom

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:36 am

amother Ballota wrote:

100% true. The school itself remarks how very different my two daughters are, so blaming the parents is just an excuse here

amother

↑ Pear ↓

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:41 am

amother Carnation wrote:

You are speaking about extreme cases. What about a child like mine, who does try so hard to behave, but just messes up in enough little areas to cause her trouble? And then pays twice for it, plus so do I. And she is definitely mainstream. I can't do anything to make her improve - she's trying as hard as she can already, and doesn't need deterrents or consequences.

amother

Brass

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:43 am

I don’t live in Lakewood, so the system is different here. Parents are only in inconvenienced if they should be doing something to prevent it (cell phone violations- we teach them how to put on restrictions, dress code violations- please check your daughters skirts in the morning and buy them new ones if they need, too many missed homeworks- stay and do homework club for a week since it’s not getting done at home. Also, if the school trying to get the parents to recognize the extent of an issue but parents are in denial (ex: kid sent home for every single fist fight till he starts meds or therapy, called in for every failed test until they agree to an evaluation).

↑ keym ↓

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 8:56 am

amother Brass wrote:

This is very much not a "Lakewood" thing.
I was raised in a large OOT community and we got detention.
1 lateness or unexcused absence warning, 2nd lateness 30 minute detention, 3rd lateness 1 hour detention.
Detention meant staying late or coming on Sunday.

And late meant per class- we had 9 a day.
And it was cumulative. So if I came late to 1 class in October because I lost track of time, and I ditched 1 class in December because I just needed a break, detention.
And yes my mother would yell at me and nag me and get in my business and I remember thinking leave me alone. I can't be perfect all the time.

amother

↑ Carnation

Fri, Dec 20 2024, 9:06 am

I feel like parents place unfair expectations on schools. If parents can’t influence the child’s behavior, how can the school possibly accomplish that?
So parents want: experienced teachers, the schools should never give consequences that inconvenient the parents, smaller classes, less vacation days, special accommodations for all children’s needs, fun and exciting programming, high education, extracurricular activities, minimal homework, living wages for teachers, did I leave anything out? Oh right, less tuition fees/ no tuition increases.
Makes perfect sense.

I’m just a parent, I have no connection to any school, but I feel like parents need to support their schools more- not financially though that would be nice, but emotionally- your kids should know you stand proudly with the institution you send them too and while they, your kids, will always be your first priority and they come first- barring any major missteps, you support the school and their methods.

I think as parents, we need to take the primary responsibility for our children.

Also for the record, I’m against detention and inconveniencing the parents. Doesn’t make any sense to me. But if I send to a school that has those rules, then I would feel like I should abide by them.