High school discipline help

dankbar ↓

Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:38 pm

In elementary, the teachers who started out strict & formal (yet interesting lessons), then let go a bit were the succesful ones.

In hi school the personable ones we loved, not the ones that just rattled off their lessons & walked out.
The ones that brought some back & forth coversation into the lessons, sometimes even sharing some personal or down to earth bits that we were able to relate to. Those teachers we enjoyed.
Some teachers didn't know the girls, from beans, all they knew was their lesson written in their book & just rattling it off in a super fast pace, to get more material in, while we had to write down the lesson in our notes, while she was rambling on. Those teachers lost me.

little neshamala

Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:46 pm

dankbar wrote:

Same.
Also, I found that the teachers who layed down the law extra hard and gave out consequences to establish that they were boss lost us in the long run. Yes, they ran a pin drop quiet class room, but we sneered inside, and didnt enjoy participating. Not saying you shouldnt dole out a consequence here or there if its necessary. If you really need to, do so. But try your hardest to run your class in a way that you rarely need to resort to that. With highschoolers, you want the girls to respect you on their own, not because youre demanding it.

pizza4

Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:47 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

If you make outrageous threats that you don't carry out, you will lose respect.

But if you make reasonable threats (detention, a -5) and CARRY IT OUT, it will work.

No, it'll make them hate you and continue to misbehave.
OP lots of luck! Remember each girl has her own story... and is a world of their own.
May Hashem help you reach them and teach them!
I don't teach high school, but here's a tip I think might help- start with telling them a story. Any story, but if it's a personal one even better. Something that will make them think. Leave out the ending for the end of the class.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:48 pm

Please write if you teach high school or not. It makes a big difference.

↑ Flip Flops

Tue, Sep 10 2019, 10:10 pm

You have to have a presence of confidence. Students sniff out uncertainty right away. Don't give them a minute to think. Don't fumble with what you'll say or do next. Come into the classroom and jump right in. Keep them on their toes the entire time - with notes taking, with interactive questions... whatever your style is and whatever works for your subject matter.
Don't worry now about being the nice/fun/cute teacher that all the students love. If you truly care about your students they will know that and respect you for that, even if you are strict with them in the beginning. Now is the time to establish your authority - not to be their friends.

real israeli

Tue, Sep 10 2019, 10:51 pm

I’m not a teacher. But based on my own high school experience: those teachers who were super strict/treated us like 6th graders did not have our cooperation or respect. Those who walked in with interesting material did. “Control” had much more to do with how interesting the lesson was than with how strict the teacher was. Quizzes do not help you have control. Neither do point deductions - frequently the same kids who are acting up are the ones who don’t care too much about their grades and are sitting detention too often to consider it a punishment.

↑ trixx ↓

Tue, Sep 10 2019, 11:24 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you all for your help. A special thank you to those who reached out. Today was a lot better Baruch Hashem . If you can list rules or boundaries you have in your high school classes and consenquences (subtle or not so subtle) would be helpful.

You need to approach this differently.

1) what must happen in your classroom for it to run smoothly? Based on your subject, kids, and personality
Ex: I'm a history teacher so they must have notebooks. I'm a cjumans teacher so they must have chumadh and highlighters. Or, I actually don't care about Hmwk and I don't need hands raised bc they only do chavrusa work. I don't care if they use markers on their worksheets.

2) what CANNOT happen? Either personally or school rule
Ex: I personally hate gum chewing in my face so I didn't allow that. I would walk up the student silently holding a garbage can all without stopping to teach.
I don't care. About eating in class so I let that happen. Admin didn't allow phones, and neither did I, so I would stand by the desk with my hand outstretched and wait (without saying anything).

And then figure out your 'rules" based on that. You should find that they aren't rules, they're just natural logical consequences.
Ex 1: if you don't come to class with notebook or chumadh you are not present. You can remain, but you're not here, bc you're not ready to learn.
Or, you can't come in at all.
Or, you can come and "rent" extra supplies from me and it will cost you something. I saw this on pinterest thought it was brilliant. Like every kid gets a few passes that they can spend on this.

Ex 2: my gum and phone rules

There should also be very little! If it doesn't bother you, it's not a fight you'll be able to sustain, so don't start it. Talking out doesn't bother me personally. I don't enforce hand raising. Gum bothers me so I enforce it from day one to the last day, and yes they test me every day in between.

It doesn't matter what it is, just that you believe in it. Never defend a rule you don't believe in.

And conversely, only have the rules you need to have. Uniform is not my issue. I don't see and I don't care. Homework is not a battle I want to fight, so I don't assign it.

(I have done daily 5q quiz and it's a great way for them to scan their notes before class, start the class off with a review and a structure and also simply create more grades to factor in. Also helps me see if anything was misunderstood yesterday)

You shouldn't be dreaming up a list of rules and punishments. Narrow down the essentials and figure out how comfortable you are with dealing with "infractions" of them. And remember if you pick it, you fight it. I fought gum every day. You might say, that's a dumb fight. Well, that's what my classroom needed for the atmosphere.

I learned this my first year when I started off with a list of stupid rules, all the typical. I quickly realized I don't actually care about half of them. You just can't make me care about students raising their hand to go to the bathroom - in my opinion, go and come back and let no one be the wiser - or not being allowed to eat in class (though I banned coffees after one too many dirty schoolbag accidents), or pretty much anything else.

Do I sound laid back? I am, but my classroom is a very tight ship. My students know that I mean what I say, because I say very little. They know I don't nitpick on dumb little things and will only address something I consider important. They know I don't shame, embarrass or single anyone out, because I'm not looking for rule breakers - I have no rules - only a functioning classroom, so I will correct anything not contributing to functionality. They've quickly learned what the definition of functioning, in my classroom, is, so they know which behaviors they shouldn't be doing and they know I will call them out on it. I had students start opening a pack of gum during recess, I would catch their eye, and they put it away bc they didn't want to spit it out in 2 minutes - because I had proven I would make them do that.

Consistency. What CAN and what do you WANT to be consistent about?

keym

Tue, Sep 10 2019, 11:28 pm

trixx wrote:

OMG. I love you. Can you be my teacher? And my daughter's teacher?

Ruchel ↓

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:04 am

Threatening isn't desperate. Make it about them. Know that some classes are more difficult and just because some girls can vote doesn't make them adults. Maybe separate the rowdiest or give them a job to write on the board. I did this and it worked for a very difficult girl who was bored stiff.

amother

↑ Peach ↓

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:19 am

If a teacher has to resort to threats it is a sign of desperation imo.
I don't think it's appropriate to threaten about sem recommendations either .

↑ Ruchel ↓

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 9:05 am

You can mention sems is abut grades or middos. Personally didn't meddle so much with sem because many girls didn't care.

amother

↑ Peach ↓

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 9:16 am

It just turns girls off. "If you don't behave you won't get into seminary and nobody will want to marry you"
Like those over the top tznius scaremongering stories.

↑ dankbar ↓

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 9:22 am

I remember one teacher in hi school who would beg us to listen to her.....girls you are such nashim tzidkonious....we might've been quiet in the moment....but she was an utter fool in our eyes

amother

Gold ↓

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 9:59 am

Flip Flops wrote:

I teach HS. I second this.
Your day has to be fully planned to the minute, keep the pace moving both with material taught, and classwork assigned. Include discussion but keep it moving.

For a girl who talks disruptively, I either look at her while I continue teaching or, if it's more disruptive, I'll casually ask "Do you have any questions? I'll be glad to answer if you direct them to me." Usually that gets the girl back into focus.

amother

↑ Gold

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:04 am

Trixx, I agree with everything you wrote. I don't see open top buttons, I don't give homework though I do quiz often, no surprise quizzes because my goal is they should actually KNOW to study. I come across as strict and my subject is usually considered boring, but I am passionate about my subject and use humor and personal tidbits to spice it up. I give over my subject matter extremely clearly so after a couple of weeks the girls see they can be successful and feel good with the knowledge attained. This in turn keeps them being cooperative.

PinkFridge

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:29 am

dankbar wrote:

I remember one teacher in hi school who would beg us to listen to her.....girls you are such nashim tzidkonious....we might've been quiet in the moment....but she was an utter fool in our eyes

But you still probably thought more kindly of her than had she threatened seminary and marriage, I would assume.

↑ dankbar ↓

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:19 am

PinkFridge wrote:

But you still probably thought more kindly of her than had she threatened seminary and marriage, I would assume.

I did have a principal threaten me that she will give bad info for a shidduch, when I was late, and I won't be able to get married then, because nobody wants a latecomer.....I thought it was very cruel of her to say, because we were always taught to give nice info for a shidduch.

↑ dankbar

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:20 am

PinkFridge wrote:

But you still probably thought more kindly of her than had she threatened seminary and marriage, I would assume.

Problem was she was too soft & nice

↑ Ruchel ↓

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 3:55 pm

Oh don't make it about marriage that's dumb. But yes you can remind of middos, but yes you can say school is the real world too. One gets into habits. I did tell one girl, you are major, you can vote, and you are here hitting a girl and calling her a (word for disabled)?

I agree they sniff lack of confidence. Not everyone is made to teach. If it affects you FORGET IT

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:43 pm

Ruchel wrote:

That's what I thought too and was ready to quit (with notice etc..) Thanks to some wonderful woman here Trixx in particular and some coaching from my sister and friend I habe a totally different classroom. I never would have dreamed and I hope Hashem continues to gift me.