What to say to a drunk at a kiddish?

amother

↑ Vermilion

Mon, Dec 10 2018, 3:33 pm

amother wrote:

I spoke to DH. He said the drunk son in law came with another guy who was also not invited. I told him that I don't want him here. DH said there is no way to tell someone they can't come in.

Of course there is a way. Your DH just doesn’t want to do it.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Mon, Dec 10 2018, 4:07 pm

for all you know his wife is begging him to stay at her parents house sober, regardless he is responsible for his own behavior

you can tell DH you also love having an open house but this type of behavior is making it less likely rather than more
you can have a big open house while not tolerating intolerable behavior

you can be proactive....or accept that it will keep happening Sad

an open house does not have to mean tolerating what is not tolerable
an open house means they can come if they behave
also you don't want to put a stumbling block in front of them if they have a drinking issue you don't want to be their mashgiach and make it yours either

hatzlocha

↑ Miri7 ↓

Mon, Dec 10 2018, 5:50 pm

amother wrote:

I spoke to DH. He said the drunk son in law came with another guy who was also not invited. I told him that I don't want him here. DH said there is no way to tell someone they can't come in.

Everyone is invited until they do something in your house that is simply unacceptable. Being obnoxiously drunk is one, another may be saying inappropriate things to women, or running around naked.

You can have an open door to all who will respect common decency in your home. Your DH is going to have to step up and lay down the law a bit if he wants to continue to have an open home that is a nice enjoyable atmosphere for both the hosts and the guests. If these drunks keep hanging around, pretty soon your guests are going to opt to stay away rather than deal with this type of behavior.

Guests who don't respect our home are not invited back. If they come anyway and then do the behavior again, they are instructed not to return.

ohmygosh

Mon, Dec 10 2018, 6:53 pm

Why in the world do you keep blaming the wife? You think she tells him to go to the kiddushim and get drunk? I assure you she is likely extremely embarrassed and wishes he would just stay home. I'm sure the husband comes because he chooses to, and most likely, against his wife's wishes.

It seems like you're going to have to make a choice, at least temporarily. If you're not willing to refuse to allow these men into your house (and yes you can be selective when they act in this manner), then you will have to remove alcohol from these events.

amother

↑ Dodgerblue ↓

Mon, Dec 10 2018, 7:57 pm

ohmygosh wrote:

She knows he gets drunk at the shul kiddish. She tells him not to go to her parents' house when he is drinking. Where else does she expect him to go? We don't have any other place around but someone's house. She is putting her problem in someone else's home because she doesn't want it.

amother

Violet ↓

Mon, Dec 10 2018, 11:06 pm

sorry op, but blaming the wife is WRONG! She put down boundaries with her dh-not to come into her parents house when drinking. I doubt she sends him to your house, but even if she does, it's you or your dh who have to set up your own boundaries. By letting him (and other uninvited guests) in each time you and dh are basically saying they are welcome to come when you have a kiddush. [Maybe they don't realize it's by invitation only?]

Either way, the wife is responsible for making her wants and boundaries clear. She has done that. Now you can do yours. She is not responsible for what he does.

Signed,

BTDT ex-wife of an alcoholic

shirachadasha

Mon, Dec 10 2018, 11:23 pm

amother wrote:

You are
1. Blaming the victim.
2. Feeding the habit of a person with an addiction.
Please don't give the SIL or anyone like him access to alcohol.

amother

Maroon ↓

Tue, Dec 11 2018, 1:33 am

It's possible to have a warm and open home and serve only grape juice for Kiddush. Your husband wants to host a frat party and not be responsible for the behavior of his guests. Not ok.

If the house is completely open, then it needs to be alcohol free. If you're having invited guests only, then serve whatever you like.

Your husband needs to make a choice here. I know he wants to be Mr. Popular, but his emotional needs don't change the fact that you are becoming a magnet for heavy drinkers. And chas vechalila if a minor gets drunk in your house, you may be liable.

amother

↑ Dodgerblue ↓

Tue, Dec 11 2018, 6:39 am

amother wrote:

We don't serve minors alchohol at all even if their fathers are right there and say it's ok. My house isn't a frat party as we host women and children also. The men whose families are there don't get drunk. They enjoy a l'chaim, and they are checking on their families instead of being busy drinking.

We only have invited guests except for these few free loaders who put us in an awkward situation as they join the group walking to our house. DH can't say at the door you can come in and you can't.

I have clarified the issue in my mind by writing this thead and it is one problem drinker who I dislike in my house.

amother

↑ Dodgerblue ↓

Tue, Dec 11 2018, 6:58 am

amother wrote:

She is giving me and the other ladies around her problem by telling him not to go to her parents' house drunk. Her father takes this guy to a shul that serves good alcohol. Maybe the father-in-law should also escort him home. They bring him to town knowing he is a drunk then tell him not to go home. The drunk has made a scene at 4 homes that I know of. He invites himself to the sudar. They shouldn't put people in an awkward situation. Where is this guy supposed to go if not to someone's house? He will freeze to death outside. Her husband. Her problem.

They should get this guy some treatment or do an intervention or something. Or let him come home.

There is no public announcement when we host. I will invite the families ahead of time. The rav is always welcome as are our friends.

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Tue, Dec 11 2018, 7:09 am

amother wrote:

DH can't say at the door you can come in and you can't.

Yes he can. It's his house. His need to be the friendly guy is overwhelming his responsibility to keep out drunks.

And it's not this one wife who's the problem, it's her alcoholic husband and whoever else he brings along.

You've identified the problem, but don't seem to recognize which people are responsible for it.

↑ FranticFrummie ↓

Tue, Dec 11 2018, 7:20 am

If you refuse to set boundaries, don't act surprised when people behave as they wish.

Doors have locks for a reason. DH can open the door to who he want in, and then tell the freeloaders to go elsewhere.

Your home, your responsibility.

amother

↑ Dodgerblue ↓

Tue, Dec 11 2018, 7:49 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

It's really hard to admit a group of guys you doven with and say you can come in and you can't. I understand DH's point on this one.

However, DH said the next time this guy makes a scene, he will tell him to leave and not let him back. DH telling him to leave also makes a scene and makes our guests uncomfortable. I understand DH's point on this also. I shouldn't be upset on Tuesday about Shabbos. But I guess it is good because DH sees how much this guy upsets me.

I feel like telling the wife and telling the father in law that they need to take care of their own drunk relative. The father in law shouldn't let him take the first drink. He also shouldn't walk away when he is drunk.

amother

↑ Dodgerblue ↓

Tue, Dec 11 2018, 7:55 am

amother wrote:

Why isn't the wife responsible if she won't let him come home drunk? She puts her problem on the community.

amother

Wine

Tue, Dec 11 2018, 7:57 am

Lets imagine for a moment, that my family and I are at your house for Shabbos. I have a few impressionable kids, and a DH who is working on keeping his alcohol intake to a normal level. So far he's doing great, and I'm really proud of him.

Now, the loud drunk comes in, sits down, and starts in with his obnoxious behavior.

If your DH asks him to leave, and there is a scene, I will not be upset. I will be grateful, because then I will feel like my hosts are protecting the other guests, and that we will be able to enjoy a peaceful seudah without further drama.

Throw the bum out!