Female Rabbis Speak Out About 'Pervasive' Harassment

↑ Mommyg8

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 7:23 pm

andrea levy wrote:

That’s so interesting because I’ve been propositioned by a chassid and a yeshiva bocher totally inappropriately ( when I was single and not Frum, so guess what I think they wanted?)

I'm not arguing with what you are saying, I know there are rotten apples in every barrel. I just never heard this in shul, is all I am saying. (But they must have been whispering, so that's why I never heard this, right?)

imasinger

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 7:46 pm

If you go to a shul where the genders don't mix at kiddush, or where there are enough others around to raise an eyebrow at a lewd comment or action, there is less chance of harassment or worse than at a shul where genders mingle, or where obnoxious comments are not going to cause such an outcry.

For many years, it was the norm (may still be, I wouldn't know any more) for there to be a receiving line in Reform and many Conservative congregations. What 100 years ago was a handshake, post 1970's became a handshake or hug and a kiss on the cheek between clergy and congregants of opposite gender. (Since I became BT 20 years ago, it may now encompass both genders, for all I know.)

So the situation leaves women clergy more open to being the unhappy recipient of such remarks.

None of this makes such comments or actions anything other than despicable.

mommy9

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 7:54 pm

I think the fact that our nation has elected someone who is a known s-xual harasser has brought forth a sense that it is enough already.

Doesn't anyone remember Bill Clinton? How many years ago was he elected?

tigerwife ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 7:57 pm

Very disturbing.

Can anyone explain why a clergy(wo)man cannot file a lawsuit for zxual harassment? I'm not sure I understand this law at all, or see a point to it?

Miri7

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 2:42 pm

There was recently an article by the head of Hillel of Greater Portland, a 27 year old woman about how she had been zexually harassed by a big donor:

https://www.jta.org/2017/12/21.....ilent

Unfortunately this kind of thing happens to women everywhere - in every type of workplace, walking down the street, etc. I do hope that as more people now come forward that people will start to really get the message that it's not ok.

From the article it sounds like Hillel International did a good job at supporting this woman.

amother

Salmon ↓

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 3:25 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Right, no woman should be spoken to that way. And no woman ever is, in the RW shul that I go to. I wonder why?

But other posters tell us that in RW shuls, children will not be allowed to play with yours if you dress outside the community norms (such as covering your lower face with a scarf in the cold),and are even cut off from family if they change the style of their sheitles.

cbsp ↓

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 3:34 pm

amother wrote:

I'm struggling to see the comparison to şexual harassment and groping...

↑ tigerwife

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 5:43 pm

amother wrote:

But other posters tell us that in RW shuls, children will not be allowed to play with yours if you dress outside the community norms (such as covering your lower face with a scarf in the cold)

Really?

amother

↑ Salmon

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 6:19 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Really?

Poster said it. No idea if it’s true.

Rude, offensive people on the left. On the right. In the middle. Let’s do our part in changing it instead of pointing fingers.

↑ cbsp

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 7:50 pm

amother wrote:

Poster said it. No idea if it’s true.

Rude, offensive people on the left. On the right. In the middle. Let’s do our part in changing it instead of pointing fingers.

Şexual harassment, unwanted groping, and worse go well beyond the "rude and offensive" behavior you quoted. Setting them up as opposites of a balanced equation is really offensive in its own right.

amother

↑ Burlywood

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:14 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Very disturbing.

Can anyone explain why a clergy(wo)man cannot file a lawsuit for zxual harassment? I'm not sure I understand this law at all, or see a point to it?

Quote:

female rabbis are prohibited from filing s-xual harassment suits against their employers because of what is known as the “ministerial exemption.”

“If you are a person who fits within the ministerial exemption — a rabbi, cantor, teacher or administrator — you are not able to pursue wrongful claims for discrimination, wrongful termination or s-xual harassment,”

Personally, I'm totally on board with suing every single Reform and Conservative congregation for zexual harassment and bankrupting them all. Cherry

↑ Chana Miriam S ↓

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:19 pm

amother wrote:

Personally, I'm totally on board with suing every single Reform and Conservative congregation for zexual harassment and bankrupting them all. Cherry

You are a truly repulsive human being. It’s because of you that Mashiach doesn’t come. We don’t have enough people wanting bad for us?

naturalmom5

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:21 pm

amother wrote:

Personally, I'm totally on board with suing every single Reform and Conservative congregation for zexual harassment and bankrupting them all. Cherry

At least have the guts to say this in your screen name...

shyshira

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:25 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

At least have the guts to say this in your screen name...

She’s the OP. There ought to be a rule about this sort of thing on this site. Twisted Evil

↑ DrMom

Tue, Dec 26 2017, 12:37 am

amother wrote:

Personally, I'm totally on board with suing every single Reform and Conservative congregation for zexual harassment and bankrupting them all. Cherry

This doesn't even make any sense.

- Not every Reform/Conservative congregation has a female clergy.

- Not every female Reform/Conservative clergy has been sxually harassed.

- By your logic, would you be totally on board with suing every single Orthodox cheder? There have been several high-profile cases of zxual molestation in those instituions over the years.

- How about every single Catholic church? Or every single news outlet? After all, NBC and NPR had some not-so-kosher incidents. Just sue them all!

↑ Chana Miriam S

Tue, Dec 26 2017, 12:53 am

DrMom wrote:

I think you misunderstood her. She just wants to hurt all the reform and conservative jews, because she is nasty like that. She wishes HARM on her fellow Jews because they aren’t orthodox.

imasoftov

Tue, Dec 26 2017, 8:47 am

DrMom wrote:

I am most certainly on board with suing any institution, my kind of Jewish, someone else's kind of Jewish, someone else's religion, or secular, that is negligent about s-xual abuse.

Sue every institution just in case? That would be a good way to get your lawyer disbarred although if they took such a case that may be a good thing. Oh, and also find yourself being countersued.

P.S. Criminal investigations also work.

yo'ma ↓

Tue, Dec 26 2017, 10:02 am

amother wrote:

New York: The Jewish Week

http://jewishweek.timesofisrae.....ment/

Quote:

“People don’t understand how many congregants cross the line,” Rabbi Sirbu said. “I had one say to me as I was carrying the Torah [down the aisle], ‘You’re so pretty, I don’t know whom to kiss first — you or the Torah.’ And a friend who lost weight had a congregant come up to her, put his arm around her neck and squeeze her breast while saying, ‘It’s great to have a hot rabbi on the bima.’”

Another female rabbi who learned she was known to her congregants as the “rabbi with the nice legs” has now taken to wearing pants at all times.

Am I the only one who doesn't see the bolded not as harassment, but as a compliment? I'm not saying it's appropriate because it's not, but if it was an older man, I see it as him giving a compliment. I reiterate, inappropriate yes, but not harassment.

amother

Jade

Tue, Dec 26 2017, 10:25 am

yo'ma wrote:

Do you work? Has any man suggested kissing you when you were working? What about not working but walking down the streets carrying your precious child? You’d find that complimentary?

amother

Lilac

Tue, Dec 26 2017, 10:39 am

yo'ma wrote:

I don't know about this particular case, but I agree with you that awkward behavior, acting like a jerk and misplaced flirting are not the same as harassment. We do a disservice to women who've actually been harassed if we lump inappropriate together with wrong.