neshama carlebach | Imamother

↑ Motek ↓

Thu, Jan 27 2005, 12:21 pm

seems mistaken to me

Quote:

Shlomo Carlebach was born in 1925 in Berlin, where his father, Naftali, was an Orthodox leader. The family, which fled the Nazis in 1933, lived in Switzerland before coming to New York in 1939. His father became the rabbi of a small synagogue on West 79th Street, Congregation Kehlilath Jacob; Shlomo Carlebach and his twin brother, Eli Chaim, took over the synagogue after their father's death in 1967.

He studied at the Yeshiva Torah Vodaath in Brooklyn and at the Bais Medrash Gavoah in Lakewood, N.J. From 1951 to 1954, he worked as a traveling emissary of the Grand Rabbi of Lubavitch, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson.

here's an interview with Carlebach (though none of us know if it is 100% accurate)

he describes his upbringing, a brief encounter with a lubavitcher chasid, why he left lakewood, what the Rebbe told him ...

http://www.havurahshirhadash.o......html

↑ hadasa ↓

Thu, Jan 27 2005, 12:30 pm

Motek - I'm pretty sure the Carlebachs were with that group in France, and the fact that Freilich heard this as well strengthens my certainty. I'll try to find out for sure.

↑ Tefila ↓

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 6:34 am

From above link an interview with Carlabach

Quote:

So I did outreach. But I had some problems and I told the Rebbe about it. "Last night," I told the Rebbe one day, "I had one hundred people come to learn and sing with me." So I did outreach. But I had some problems and I told the Rebbe about it. "Last night," I told the Rebbe one day, "I had one hundred people come to learn and sing with me." But in those days the Rebbe had the position that women cou ldn't sing with men [kol isha, women's voices would s-xually arouse men according to some Orthodox traditions]. So I told the Rebbe, "When I told them that we had to sit separately men from women, I lost 90 people, and when I told them that women couldn't sing, I lost nine more, and the one person who remained was the biggest idiot. So instead of spending two hours with people who wanted to know something about Yiddishkeit, I wasted my time on one idiot. Let's assume that it's very important that men and women shouldn't sit together. Still, this is like a manicure for Judaism, making, it super-beautiful, but if the person is having a heart attack you don't give him a manicure. So I can' t do outreach this way.

So the Rebbe said to me, "I cannot tell you to do it your way. But I can't tell you not to do it your way. So if you want to do it on your own, G-d be with you." So I split. If I had stayed, and the Rebbe had gone with what I was saying, he could have been Rebbe of the world, not just Rebbe of the Chassidim.

I am still confused with his approach.... like

Quote:

But in those days the Rebbe had the position that women cou ldn't sing with men [kol isha, women's voices would s-xually arouse men according to some Orthodox traditions].

Only the Rebbe had a problem with it no other Rabbonim Confused

and

Quote:

So I split. If I had stayed, and the Rebbe had gone with what I was saying, he could have been Rebbe of the world, not just Rebbe of the Chassidim.

.....
Whats that supposed to mean Confused

and still from that link on interview

Quote:

Take Woodstock. Why should Swami Satchananda go there - why not the Lubavitcher Rebbe? It would have been a gevalt -- it would have changed a whole generation. But the Rebbe chose to be the Rebbe of the Chassidim. You know, a few years after the Rebbe became chosen to be the Lubavitcher Rebbe, he wrote a letter to his Chassidim and said, "I have so many unbelievable dreams, but I can't do them because your heads are so small."

And what is THAT in the bold print supposed to mean shock

infact Motek eigther this was truly his way of thinking, You and I know the Lubavitcher Rebbe had great hopes from his chassidim or that interview is made up Confused

Last edited by Tefila on Fri, Jan 28 2005, 6:55 am; edited 3 times in total

↑ gryp ↓

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 6:36 am

Quote:

he could have been Rebbe of the world, not just Rebbe of the Chassidim.

what? who is "he"? the Rebbe? what is this talking about??

↑ Tefila ↓

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 7:13 am

So yes I will say again there are lots of spiritual, charismatic and kind individuals who love people and brought people closer ranging in everything etc.

But how one goes about it, b/c of an incredible emotional love, that happens to tye in to that persons belief or, b/c simply G-D says so and we have to follow his Torah in Halacha aswell as spirit even if it means we win some or lose some, but to always have inmind and find another halachically accepted way to awaken the pintele yid in every jew.....

Someone came to my husband and said if only you would allow mixed seating during davening the shul would be packed. To which my husband answered if only we made it into a discoteque we would have all the youngsters and prevent assimilation..... We cannot tell G-D this idea of seperation of the sexes is not a good idea Listen to my way instead then all will follow your Torah atleast spiritually like shabbos and yomtov etc .....WHO ARE WE shock

We do not go on our emotions we have to have a guidance and that is Torah I not meaning to c"v compare . Robin Hood believed with his whole heart and stole from the rich so that the poor would have and not be poverty stricken he loved the poor and homeless he was guided by his emotion !!!!!!

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 8:32 am

Quote:

Only the Rebbe had a problem with it no other Rabbonim

does this mean that other Rabbeim permit kol isha??!?!?!?!?

then this interview is fake!!!

And I don't really like the line about chasidims' hads too cmall - it is a strait out insult, which a gadol would not do.

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 8:34 am

Quote:

kol isha, women's voices would s-xually arouse men according to some Orthodox traditions

this is another red flag. It's either some or orthodox
and it is not tradition either!!!

↑ gryp ↓

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 8:34 am

Quote:

And I don't really like the line about chasidims' heads too cmall -

I also thought that was strange, but in that case, im happy to have a "small head" if I think a mechitza and seperate seating should be in a shul!

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 8:51 am

RG, the article implyes the your rebbi said that to his hasidim when he became the rebbi.

This makes no sence to me.

(Km'on, even if he thought so, which I don't think he did, do you really think he would say that out loud?

↑ Tefila ↓

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 8:58 am

So what do you think
Scratching Head

1) Interview with Carlabach and those were his words
2) Interviewed, but site changed the way the interview ran and translated it differently
or
3) He was never even interviewed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 9:55 am

hmmmm

I think it's all of the abovr!!!

Probably several real as well as "somebody heard him say it" interviews were combined into 1 all-encompassing interview. It is also possible that the interview(s) and/ or rumors were not in English & translation mesed it up even more.

I think the bottom line is that we

do not know the real story and will probably never find out

↑ yehudis ↓

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 10:51 am

Quote:

kol isha, women's voices would s-xually arouse men according to some Orthodox traditions

Keep in mind that this interview was meant for non-Orthodox readers, and the person who wrote down the interview was not Orthodox. So the way he phrases things may not be an accurate reflection of what Rabbi Carlebach said.

I thought it was interesting, though, that Zalman Shecter-Shalomi (well-known for openly leaving Orthodoxy) is mentioned as one of the first shluchim (if that's the right word to use) of the Lubavitcher Rebbe. I wonder what happened to him.

↑ yehudis ↓

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 10:53 am

What did you think of this quote?

Quote:

Let me quote Rav Kook, one of our greatest prophets. He says the world always thinks that religious people are the ones who are close to religion, and non-religious ones don't care about religion. But it is often the case that the non religious people are yearning for something so deep and they look at the religious people and they don't find that there. People who are announcing themselves as messengers of God are often very mediocre people and they don't even sense the yearning of those unbelieving people.

Unfortunately, I've seen many cases where this is true. I can really relate to what he is saying.

↑ gryp ↓

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 12:44 pm

Quote:

Let me quote Rav Kook, one of our greatest prophets

.

just that sentence put me on guard. prophets? is he in the Nach? one of the greatest? the greatest prophets I can think of is of course Moshe Rabbeinu and Moshiach. now how could Rav Kook be on that level when not all of Orthodox Jews go by him? and all Orthodox Jews do go by Moshe Rabbeinu and iy"h Moshiach?

I couldnt get past that sentence so I dont know about the rest...

↑ yehudis ↓

Fri, Jan 28 2005, 3:04 pm

RG -- I don't think he meant prophet as in navi who Hashem speaks to. As I said, it wasn't an Orthodox person writing it down. He must have meant 'prophet' as a literary expression. Here's a definition from dictionary.com:

Quote:

A person gifted with profound moral insight and exceptional powers of expression.

↑ gryp ↓

Sat, Jan 29 2005, 3:30 pm

well, maybe its just me, but if you gave me that definition and I had to guess the word, I would never guess "prophet".

[/quote]

↑ Tefila ↓

Sat, Jan 29 2005, 9:16 pm

Ok it's not one word, its the whole interview. Sounds more then distorted..... so I have to agree
with
forever young

Quote:

I think the bottom line is that we do not know the real story and will probably never find out

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Jan 30 2005, 2:37 pm

yehudis wrote:

I thought it was interesting, though, that Zalman Shechter-Shalomi (well-known for openly leaving Orthodoxy) is mentioned as one of the first shluchim (if that's the right word to use) of the Lubavitcher Rebbe. I wonder what happened to him.

yes, it's the right word, they were the first to go to campuses

what happened to him? he's still around and the father of the Jewish Renewal movement (don't ask me what that is ...)

there's a nice story with him going to the Rebbe for dollars

↑ yehudis ↓

Sun, Jan 30 2005, 3:06 pm

Motek wrote:

what happened to him? he's still around and the father of the Jewish Renewal movement (don't ask me what that is ...)

there's a nice story with him going to the Rebbe for dollars

I mean what happened between him and the Lubavitcher Rebbe?

And what's the story?

1stimer ↓

Sun, Jan 30 2005, 11:09 pm

ForeverYoung wrote:

By the way, deOraisa only relations are asur,
deRabanan - endeering touch is asur.
Negia as we observe it is a humra, ecepted by the Jews

I spoke to my husband about this - he said that d'oraisa a man is not even allowed to have thoughts let alone touch. negia is d'oraisa.

if I remember correctly, reb moshe has quite a famous teshuva on this. Someone, I'm not sure boy or girl, asked what is wrong with a boy and girl having a purely platonic relationship and he goes into detail about why it is wrong and what they are transgressing.