Ketubah | Imamother

613 ↓

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 12:17 pm

ElTam wrote:

We have ours hanging. I have never seen the lock and key.

ditto.
but I guess you could ask your rav.
we asked our rav about getting a nice one to hang and he Okay'ed it. we never asked about lock and key. the kesuba, in general, does not HAVE to be locked up, right?

supermom ↓

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 12:17 pm

I heard you are suppose to hide it that you aren't suppose to remember where you put it. never heard of the lock and key thing though.

lucky

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 12:33 pm

Fireproof safe, with other important documents.

↑ deedee

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 1:45 pm

I got a pretty (big) one and wanted to hang it. then hubby informed me that its not lubav minhag to display them but to keep them hidden away. so now its in a frame on a closet shelf!

hisorerus

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 1:52 pm

I heard the wife should hide it from her husband, I guess so he can't destroy it in a moment of anger. That would explain the lock.

willow

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 2:38 pm

I heard that the wife should know where it is at all times. She does not need to keep it under lock and key.

hadasa

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 3:17 pm

supermom wrote:

I heard you are suppose to hide it that you aren't suppose to remember where you put it. never heard of the lock and key thing though.

You are supposed to remember where you put it. If you lose it it's a Shaila if you can have relations.

hardwrknmom

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 4:07 pm

Mine is hidden.

Meema2Kids

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 4:11 pm

Mine is in a fireproof safe.

↑ elisecohen

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 4:12 pm

I've also heard some people have the minhag to keep an extra, small kesuba in the suitcase they usually use for travelling...I guess because in the old days in some inn's G-d fearing innkeepers wouldn't let men and women stay together unless they could prove they were married. I great big one on the wall certainly isn't portable.

It isn't a new trend to have a big artistic kesuba, though; I've seen Jewish art exhibits with beautiful medieval and later era ones (I remember particularly some Dutch ones I know).

estherf

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 4:15 pm

amother wrote:

hi I would love to hang my kesuba up. its a really really nice one!

We got a nice silver case the one that people use for Megillah and engraved our names and date of the wedding on it. We do not hide our kesuba but still it is not on the wall. And (has ve Shalom) in case of a fire it should be safe.

Quote:

I heard you are suppose to hide it that you aren't suppose to remember where you put it.

P.S. A wife has to know where the kesuba is and if it is hidden once in a while she has to make sure it is still there.

↑ 613

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 4:25 pm

elisecohen wrote:

It isn't a new trend to have a big artistic kesuba, though; I've seen Jewish art exhibits with beautiful medieval and later era ones (I remember particularly some Dutch ones I know).

True! my mother has her parents kesubah and she got it redone- it's beautiful - it's over 60 years old.

jewgal84

Thu, Dec 15 2005, 5:09 pm

All the kesuba has in it are your names and laws about divorce, who wants to advertise that?

Never heared of a lock and key.

Our kesuba is wrapped up in a paper towel role covered in silver foil, in one of our drawers. My dh doesn't always remember where it is but I look for it from time to time.

shanie5

Sat, Dec 17 2005, 7:58 pm

a kesuba is like a prenuptual agreement. mine is put away. I doubt my dh knows where it is, but I sure do.

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Dec 18 2005, 8:53 am

there is an expression: to keep something "under lock and key" which means to keep it safe which is what I assume was meant in connection with the kesuba

ButterflyGarden ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2006, 4:49 pm

BS"D
Your ketubah also mentions you status premarraige. There are a lot of BTs with declarations of past misdeeds hanging on their walls where anyone with any knowledge of hebrew can read it.

DefyGravity ↓

Thu, Jan 12 2006, 4:52 pm

Mine's in a drawer along with the tanayim and marriage license.

↑ Motek ↓

Tue, Feb 21 2006, 9:45 pm

shanie5 wrote:

a kesuba is like a prenuptual agreement. mine is put away. I doubt my dh knows where it is, but I sure do.

chen wrote:

Mandy wrote:

Quote:

Well-known divorce lawyer, Marvin Mitchelson said, “I’ve never seen a marriage survive a prenuptial agreement

…

Sorry, isn't the kesuba a form of pre-nup ?

It sure is. a pre-nup is a contract signed before a marriage specifying how the property will be allocated in the event of the dissolution of the marriage, usually through divorce but sometimes including death of the spouse.

the kesubah was developed to ensure that a divorcee or widow would receive her entitlement rather than be left destitute upon divorce or death of her husband. it was extremely forward-thinking for its day.

consider the inheritance laws of early 19th-century england (just 200, not 2000, years ago): upon the death of a landowner, all "entailed" property went to the male heir. Usually this was the eldest son of the house, but if there were no sons, the nearest male relative, who was at times a rather distant relative indeed, inherited. The widow and any daughters had no rights and no recourse. If the estate included property that was unentailed, the husband could will property over to his wife and/or daughters. If, however, the husband failed to do so, or if all the property was entailed, the widow and daughters were dependent upon the good graces of the heir. if the heir wished to toss them into the street, he was legally entitled to do so. and, of course, a woman's entire estate became her husband's property upon marriage. if he chose to squander it and leave her penniless upon his death, that was within his rights.

the modern Orthodox prenup that is gaining some popularity is an agreement that in case of the unthinkable, the husband will give his wife a get, and that he cannot get a civil divorce unless and until he does so. this document holds up in American civil courts. It was devised to avoid the heartbreaking and increasingly common scenario of a husband deliberately withholding the get, securing a civil divorce and then going off and doing his own thing, leaving his ex-wife-in-the-eyes--of-the-state-of-massachusetts-but-still-his-wife-in-the-eyes-of-halacha an aguna.

the kesuba is not the sort of prenuptial agreement that the lawyer was referring to and to avoid confusion, maybe the word "prenuptial" shouldn't be used for every type of prenuptial agreement

as Chen explained (and see previous page for the kesuba wording) the kesuba is one-sided - what the wife gets

the lawyer referred to prenuptial agreements where the couple, in advance, specify who will get the house, the car, the china ...

as for the modern O's idea, which rabbis have given it the okay? haven't heard of any

Chani ↓

Tue, Feb 21 2006, 10:40 pm

I heard it said in the name of R. Yosef Soloveichik, ztl. We have one; our rav (at that time) would not permit a chasunah without it.

↑ supermom

Wed, Feb 22 2006, 5:40 am

I have a question okay two. A man is allowed to sell the kesubah for money if he needs one. Another thing a man can get another person to get married in his place. so if the case is as in the first question it must not be all about a divorce since he could sell it, and a person can still live together.