Is and when is, "fake" ever right?

Ozmom ↓

Thu, Dec 22 2005, 7:51 am

I wasn't sure if this should go in relationships or Judaism coz its a combination of both, but seeing as I'm not discussing an actual relationship but rather a concept I chose Judaism.

So in this weeks Parsha it discusses Yosef's brothers and their hatred of him.
Rashi explains on the pasuk that says they couldn't talk to him due to their feelings that this pasuk is actually speaking their praise. That they were 'real', they weren't hypocrites.

So I was left wondering about this and thinking, what does it mean?
If I dislike a person, I shouldn't even pretend to be nice?

I mean the ultimate is to learn to have ahavas Yisroel but in the interim...?

we learn also that one must speak out if one has a grudge. If u r upset with the person, you must tell them and clear the air, but we all know it can get more complex than that at times.
and at times we don't always know why we dislike a person.

and then what about when u r on the receiving end? meaning a person is being ever so sweet to you but you know that inside the person hates you and it is all a show, so what do you do?
do you play along and be friendly or do you tell the person "sorry I'm not interested in a fake relationship with you"

it just seems to me like a catch 22, if you pretend to be friendly when your not ......its wrong
if your cold and honest about your feelings....it seems wrong too

so what do you do?

so a few scenarios
a) a person you don't get along with or had an issue with in the past - pretending to be friendly or being cold

b) a person who wants your friendship but you really don't care for the person - go along with it and pretend to be a friend or make it clear that you are disinterested

c) a person you have a grudge against - tell the person and risk a fight but be honest or bury the grudge, plaster on a smile and do your best to appear fine with the person.

personally for c) I think one should either say whats on their mind or find a way to let go the negative feelings or keep away from the person

for b) well personally I don't like the idea of anyone pretending to be my friend so I'd rather the truth. In addition I simply hate getting mixed messages. OTOH I'd find it hard to turn away someone myself Confused

a) My opinion..........well, see with me, I can be fairly gullible, so the idea that someone could be playing me would make me sick!

I'm curious to read how ppl behave in such situations, you can use amother if you want to be honest but too uncomfortable.

He*Sings*To*Me ↓

Sun, Dec 25 2005, 4:21 am

My husband and I were engaged for two months, and during that time, there was a married couple at shul, who rather "latched" themselves to us. My dh is an easy-going type, and I am too, in some areas, but the woman realllllly got on my last nerve. My husband said to avoid offending them, we should invite them. We did. It only encouraged them.
This woman would ring our number a couple times a week for no particular reason, and just go on and on and on and on...you get the idea. (And, I am not one to speak long by the phone, I do my business and I am off. The quicker, the better.)
Once it was open knowledge that I was expecting each baby, she'd pat my belly, even after I politely would say, "I really don't like people doing that...it makes me very uncomfortable." It went in one ear and out the other.
I couldn't take it anymore...I stopped answering the phone when she'd call and I'd see on the Caller ID it was her...one time she called 17 times in one day!!!
I finally had to write her a note explaining that I felt rather smothered and that I would prefer that we would cease from further contact. She became very offended...what was I to do?(If she'd been a man, it could've been stalking.) I used to duck away from her when I'd see her at shul from afar off...now, she turns her back when she sees me. As relieved as I am, I hate the idea that I hurt someone's feelings...but, I just cannot be a false friend, either...any opinions/suggestions?

↑ Ozmom

Sun, Dec 25 2005, 6:54 am

right so thats one of the questions I'm asking. What do you do in such a situation?
although I can't say I've ever been in quite such a situation with someone smothering me like that ...oy...
Hstm, that was a tough one, I don't know what I'd do in such a situation other then do my best not to encourage the relationship. of course she would be offended by the note, u didn't think she wouldn't be, did ya?

I do know a woman that I find myself "ducking" when I see her. I know when she catches a hold on me she keeps talking and talking and its hard to get away.

↑ He*Sings*To*Me

Mon, Dec 26 2005, 3:19 pm

In my particular situation, both the husband and the wife were seemingly oblivious to body language, tactful verbage, etc....simply put: they are "clueless"when it comes to social cues that the average person picks up on. This couple has a reputation of being this way. When I relocated to this region and married my husband, I knew no one here...EVERYONE seemed to already know who I was, and approached me with warmth but I knew NO ONE! I returned the warmth to the sea of nameless faces; this one just seemed to "latch on".
This situation began 6 years ago...because I don't engage in lashon hora, and the Jewish community here is rather small (there are only approx. 8,000 Jews here), I had no one I could discuss this with. And, because there were just many more exciting things to talk about to friends back home, I never spoke of this problem to anyone there, either.
When I composed the note I sent by post to her, I edited and re-edited my words to make sure that the "blows" were sent with down-feathered pillows, so to speak. Even though I knew that her feelings would be hurt, I thought that carefully thought out wording as to what made me uncomfortable might enable her to be more mindful in the future with potential friendship opportunities. I also wished her well, assuring her I harboured no ill-will towards her.
When I reflect on the situation, I don't really know what I'd have done differently...that's why bringing it up here seemed like a good idea...I might learn something from each of you.
Ozmom and I both are both wondering about the same concepts...