School taking drastic measures

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Today at 5:41 am

amother OP wrote:

If both parents are working full time you have a point. Often in a Heimishe school the mothers are SAHM. Babysitting at home or other employment to pay tuition and enable their children’s teachers to be paid would be a good start.

That was the situation a decade ago. Nowadays more and more families have two working parents. Expenses have gone up dramatically, bur wages haven't.

We have to admit that tuition is unaffordable for the average family. Something needs to be done and threatening parents isn't the way to go about it.

Curious though - if a dh is in kollel, would the school equally expect him to take a job to afford tuition? Imo, a woman who chooses to be a SAHM just so that she can better take care of her children is doing something equally valuable to learning. Both are prioritizing their primary tafkid.

amother

↑ Fuchsia ↓

Today at 5:41 am

amother Pear wrote:

I wonder if this was an absolute blanket rule. I parent who is the bread winner dies.....and the kid is kicked out of school. I doubt it.

This is one of those dilemmas that I really can't make up my mind about. If a parent c'vs truly can't pay, how can they kick out the kid? It's not always possible for the parent to "work it out somehow".

I think the best answer is that a school is like a business. If a business can't pay its bills, they close. Same with a school. A school shouldn't be perpetually behind year after year. If they can't pay their teachers then it's time to close. Keeping it open and not paying their staff and sending students home is not a mehalech.

And then we’ll all homeschool our kids. Perfect plan…
As it is, there aren’t enough schools where I live.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Today at 5:43 am

amother Fuchsia wrote:

Ask for help in terms of tzedaka? Why should the teachers need to do that?

People are already maxed out with tzedakah help. There isn't an infinite amount available to help all the struggling families.

People are genuinely stuck between a rock and a hard place. These are very difficult financial times.

And setting up guards in front of doors to do a Mengele-style selection is the poorest choice to go about this.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Today at 5:45 am

amother Jetblack wrote:

Go into debt. Is what we needed to do. I’m sure the teachers who aren’t getting paid go into debt too. It’s a sad state of affairs but there isn’t a solution.

That's a very shortsighted solution that will aggravate the situation down the road. So the family borrows money to pay tuition, and then the debt comes calling. What then - now they have a double whammy. Still need to pay tuition but they need to pay off their debt too.

What now?

amother

↑ Fuchsia

Today at 5:45 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

The alternative is that teachers go on strike, the school closes, and you’re left to homeschool your child for the rest of the year.

amother

↑ NeonPink ↓

Today at 5:47 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

In my view, being a SAHM or in kollel are for people that are rich enough to do so. If you can’t pay tuition, it’s time to leave kollel or send your kids to a babysitter. We need to pay the people that service us, it’s a halachic and moral obligation.

amother

Sienna

Today at 5:51 am

I agree with the notice. I feel there are a lot of people who put tuition on the back burner and pay a lot of other stuff before. There are the people who really try hard and can't do it. But I know many people who don't even try. I don't live in Lakewood but I live in town. My tuition's a lot higher than any Lakewood tuition and I pay in full. I literally work just to pay tuition. My tuition bill comes about higher than my salary.

In addition, everyone should ask a shailah in regard to using master for tuition. You may be surprised.

allthingsblue

Today at 5:52 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Why is tuition unaffordable for the average family? Lakewood tuition is cheap comparatively.

Maybe other things should be toned down. Bar mitzvahs, clothing, day camp, sleep away camp.

amother

Tulip ↓

Today at 5:57 am

allthingsblue wrote:

Why is tuition unaffordable for the average family? Lakewood tuition is cheap comparatively.

Maybe other things should be toned down. Bar mitzvahs, clothing, day camp, sleep away camp.

Because it is. Its unaffordable for a large percentage. Let's do the math.

A few years ago my tuition was 60k (this was after breaks, and included son in bais medrash). Let's just say that our income was not including that easily, and I can't imagine I am the only one. (And I'm aware that imas from other communities will quickly chime in that I was getting a bargain, and I agree I was).

It might be affordable if you have two school age kids. If you have a large typical Lakewood family of all ages? Explain to me how?

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Today at 6:01 am

allthingsblue wrote:

Why is tuition unaffordable for the average family? Lakewood tuition is cheap comparatively.

Maybe other things should be toned down. Bar mitzvahs, clothing, day camp, sleep away camp.

I fully agree that so many other things should be toned down. 1000%.

But tuition nowadays, even the cheaper ones, equates to a 2nd mortgage for the average family. The way our lifestyle is structured puts the majority of families into a position where 2nd mortgages are just not affordable.

The kids get married young, with no financial stability, but have babies immediately. The end result is that they are still struggling to establish themselves financially when the kids reach school-age. Add to that the high cost of living for the average Jewish community (referring to basics such as housing and kosher food), it's creates huge struggles.

Doing away with all the excesses will help a bit, but I emphasize the 'bit'. It's the basic foundation of our community setup that's wreaking havoc, and that's the core issue. The rest are band-aids.

ddmom

Today at 6:01 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

How on earth did you come up with the bolded? Really, mangele-style ???
Your choice of words is outrageous regardless of their actions.

amother

↑ Brunette ↓

Today at 6:03 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Parents don't think schools should educate for free. But they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. They don't have the money for it, but schooling is a necessity.

What should they do?

Don't you think tuition should come before paying day camp, for example, like another mother said? Happens to be that she made it sound like her school was okay with her being late but what if they weren't?
I have family that did not send their kids to day camp in the summer, or sent very cheap etc, mothers helpers for free, because they couldn't afford it.

Why should school not get tuition because for some reason they can't comes first? Your answer will probably be that the day camp would not allow you to come for free unlike the schools that are way too nice.

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Today at 6:05 am

amother Brunette wrote:

I didn't send my kids to day camp, I couldn't afford it. Do I now get a free pass? There will always be people who can't afford everything and I don't know why people don't see it.

And the only reason I didn't send to day camp was because I wasn't working. Which according to posters on this thread is a no no as well.

amother

↑ Brunette ↓

Today at 6:07 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

But the poor get subsidies/assistance for basic needs. We don't tell them do without food if you don't have the money for it.

School is a necessity for children. Barring send the kids to a public school, what options do parents have.

This is a problem that gives right to both sides. So what can the solution be here?

Are all the parents of that school willing to open their books for someone to go through and see if they could find the money that they're saying they can't pay the same way that they want the school to do for them?

Posters that do not live in Lakewood- I don't think you understand how low tuition is here especially subsidized tuition compared to other places.

For elementary school girls you're talking about somewhere between 6800 & 8000 FULL. There are definitely a few exceptions but this is the average. That means that there are people who are paying $5,000 per kid Which is less than they would pay to send their kid to a babysitter for less time of the day.

For boys it's probably between $6,800 and 10, again that's full, many people get breaks without question.

amother

↑ Holly ↓

Today at 6:09 am

Are there this many people out of touch with what struggling families are facing??

Yes, Sara shanirer sent people who didn’t pay home. However, Bais Yakov was for a major
Minority back then. You can’t compare.

For those telling us to cut back, borrow, or get another job, maybe we did all that already , and we’re still stretched thin??

When we beg the school for a discount before the school year starts because we KNOW we can’t commit to 50k in tuition annually, and we get a discount of $500 for the year, that’s being made fun of. We know kollel families get a bigger discount. They are one salary households on govt programs. Maybe instead of my family being told to add a 3rd job to our lives that we have no time for, the kollel family should be told that the husband should get a job so he can pay full tuition, with a $500 discount, just like us? They chose not to have one income. We didn’t choose not be rich, we’re trying our best. With degrees and all.
And yes, I’m owed roughly $20k in A/R between my business and my husband’s business at the moment. And clients complain they can’t pay. And I know they can’t.
And I’m happy they send partial payment as they can. We are also in a field that people use us because they have no choice, even if they can’t afford it. So I do understand the other side.

Bottom line, it’s not sustainable from both ends. There needs to be a better solution.

There are so many random organizations for every need. We need to also come up with a central tuition program that all schools in each community buy into (with incentives to join) to help balance out this issue.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Today at 6:10 am

ddmom wrote:

How on earth did you come up with the bolded? Really, mangele-style ???
Your choice of words is outrageous regardless of their actions.

I think the schools action is equally outrageous, hence the choice of words.

The school is using kids as a pawn in their tactics. If kids show up to school and you have a guard publicly 'selecting' who can or cannot enter, that's despicable. This isn't an amusement park or luxury place that you can justify turning away people. This is a kids basic need, it's a kid life that you're playing around with.

The school has an issue with the parents, and perhaps you want to make the claim that the parents should keep the kids home. But school is a necessity for the kids and that's the critical key here. Parents can't keep their kids home indefinitely. And the school should never use employ a strategy that punishes kids for their parents situation. NEVER, no matter how tough the situation is.

Just like you are telling the parents to figure something with their impossible financial situation, so too should the school figure something out, without resorting to punishing and embarrassing kids.

amother

Green ↓

Today at 6:10 am

amother Tulip wrote:

I agree.
And salaries are definitely not what "everyone" is saying. Especially lately.
Even with some tuition break.

1 Mesivta boy- full tuition 11k, paying 8k.
1 high school girl- paying 6k
2 elementary school girls- paying 6k each
2 elementary school boys- paying 6.5k each
That includes tuition breaks everywhere
39k.
Plus bussing, registration, go, trips, building, dinners, book, mandatory summer - another 2.5 k a year.

Average family. Husband makes 130, wife make 60.
190k.
Taxes- 25k. Now 160k
Insurance (not eligible for jerseycare) $1500 per month. 18k. Now 142k

Tuition and fees 42k. Now 100k

Mortgage/rent 3000 per month 36k. Now 64k

Utilities, phone, gas, 12k a year
Now 52k

Car payments, car insurance - another 6k

We're now at 48k.

Daycamp (both parents work) 6k.

We now have 42k - or $3500 a month for Yom Tov, food, clothing, savings, Yom Tov.

That hasn't touched sleep away camp or any vacations.
And such a family would probably not get such great tuition breaks.

amother

DarkRed

Today at 6:11 am

Everyone is right about the tuition crisis.
The problem is that in this school finances have been mismanaged for a very long time. Yes there are many parents who don’t pay but there are many parents like myself who have been paying full tuition for years, plus huge donations to fundraisers, and no one knows where the money went. Instead of calling a meeting the way Nachlas did and being transparent, the administration hides behind secretaries to do their dirty work.
I was really upset when I got that text. Myself and other parents who pay full tuition are just praying that the administration gets desperate enough to sell the school to someone who is financially savvy and more transparent about where funds are going.
It’s sad to see because we love the parent body, teachers, principal, and so many things about the school but the administration is a mess.

amother

Garnet

Today at 6:12 am

Both sides are right, there are no answers. Life became unnafordable with many people being putting tuition last either out of necessity or priority.

Let’s exclude the overspenders and assume we are tying about Ehrlich people who can’t make ends meet.

The school needs to fundraise or press the wealthy families for more donations so they can set up a reserve for situations like this. Get grandparents on board. Or parents should need to fundraise the difference.

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Today at 6:12 am

amother Brunette wrote:

You're missing the part where the fathers are in kollel the first few years, sometimes more. That when they go to work they are starting low, and there aren't that many high paying jobs around Lakewood to begin with. And by the time they do start working they are already knee deep in expenses. This is the reason for the historical low Lakewood tuition. Many people I know are barely making it, and really struggling to pay tuition, but maybe I run in a different crowd than this school.