Tahara in death | Imamother

↑ zaq ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 2:48 pm

Molly Weasley wrote:

I'm having a hard time following you. Certainly, during the ‏Holocaust the niftarim did not have a Tharah. Consider the logistical challenges of getting it done!

Just the fortunate ones received a burial, the rest just rotted away Crying

Many,many,many were turned into smoke and ashes. Did you not learn that part?

miami85

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 2:59 pm

I recently had the privilige to hear Elissa Felder speak, she has recently published a book on this topic From One Life To The Next Life where she discusses being part of the Chevra Kadisha based on her personal journey of life and loss. Her story was powerful.

Her aim is to bring the tahara process from "oogie" and "creepy" to that of "kedusha"--like Kallah classes.

While I admit I'm not ready to jump into joining my local chevra kaddisha, it definitely made me feel a little bit more comfortable with the topic.

As for "kedoshim" I believe I heard it from her that we do not remove the blood and clothing of someone who died "al kiddush Hashem" and I infer from that that's why we say "Hashem Yimkom damom"

↑ zaq ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:01 pm

I think you're confusing the tradition that the bodies of tzaddikim do not deteriorate even in the grave with dying al kiddush haShem. ZAKA was davka founded to ensure that the deceased are brought "home" and given kosher tahara and burial.

Sadly, not everyone who dies al kiddush haShem or otherwise
is zoche. Sometimes the remains are so fragile that a tahara would damage them. In such a case, the chevra goes through the motions to the extent possible without doing an actual tahara.

↑ Molly Weasley ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:05 pm

miami85 wrote:

As for "kedoshim" I believe I heard it from her that we do not remove the blood and clothing of someone who died "al kiddush Hashem" and I infer from that that's why we say "Hashem Yimkom damom"

I've never heard of that concept, but all blood - including bloody clothing - is buried with the person regardless of how she died.

↑ chassidisheveib ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:08 pm

Molly Weasley wrote:

Why would they not receive a Tharah if possible?

Don’t know, that’s what I heard so I wanted to knowing it’s true.

↑ chassidisheveib ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:10 pm

zaq wrote:

Makes sense.

naturalcurls ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:13 pm

Is there a minimum age for women to volunteer? I always wanted to do this now Im busy with my kids but thinking once they in school (around 35ish) I would want to volunteer

↑ Molly Weasley ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:16 pm

chassidisheveib wrote:

Don’t know, that’s what I heard so I wanted to knowing it’s true.

I asked, and you're right!

It's an actual halcha, the nifter is buried as is. Thank you!

Plonis

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:17 pm

chassidisheveib wrote:

Do they not do tahara on kedoishim? Even these days. ?

https://www.chabad.org/news/ar.....s.htm

"Levy says that the chevra kadisha procedure for terror victims is unique. Following the age-old tradition regarding those who were killed for being Jewish, known as kedoshim (“holy ones”), the body is not washed and clothed in white linen as usual.

Instead, it is buried “as is”—bloodied and in the torn, soiled clothing in which the person had been killed, bearing witness to the cruelty that had been done.

And in this case, since the remains sometimes consist of just a skeleton or disconnected body parts, they are often placed in simple wooden coffins. This is in contrast with the longstanding tradition of the Holy Land, where the dead are placed directly into the earth."

↑ Molly Weasley ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:17 pm

naturalcurls wrote:

Is there a minimum age for women to volunteer? I always wanted to do this now Im busy with my kids but thinking once they in school (around 35ish) I would want to volunteer

Best is to start after menopause. Scheduling gets very complicated otherwise according to many minhagim

↑ zaq ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:37 pm

Molly Weasley wrote:

. They were cremated, honey. In crematoria so huge the smoke cast a pall over the entire area. You didn't know? Towards the end, when the Nazis were trying to get rid of the evidence, the crematoria operated day and night and still couldn't keep up with the backlog of corpses. Amazing how many Germans living in the vicinity "had no idea." Riiiiiight.

1ofbillions

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:41 pm

Anyone else getting the creeps reading this? I’m picturing people touching and handling ny naked body without me being in it.

↑ seeker

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:42 pm

I feel like this conversation has taken a condescending tone which is really unnecessary. The Holocaust was very wide ranging and not all deaths occurred in camps and crematoria. Especially in the earlier days when there were still free Jews, people were killed in homes and streets and forests and ghettos and all over. Likely many people/communities didn't have the resources to handle them properly in those circumstances either, but it wasn't out of the question the way it was in the camps. No need to be nasty.

↑ chassidisheveib ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:43 pm

1ofbillions wrote:

Anyone else getting the creeps reading this? I’m picturing people touching and handling ny naked body without me being in it.

That’s also why they ask you forgiveness. After 120. But moshiach will come before that.

↑ zaq ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:43 pm

Molly Weasley wrote:

Best is to start after menopause. Scheduling gets very complicated otherwise according to many minhagim

One doesn't exactly "schedule" a tahara. One does it asap. And you can do it when niddah, and you can do it in the daytime. When I joined I was in my early 30s and at least two other members were in their mid to late 30s. I think the only definitely post- menopausal woman was the leader who trained everyone. My friend had a paid job doing taharas when she was in her early 20s.

↑ zaq

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 3:47 pm

1ofbillions wrote:

Anyone else getting the creeps reading this? I’m picturing people touching and handling ny naked body without me being in it.

. It's really not naked but covered with a sheet at all times. When the sheets are changed, the new one is laid on top and the old one pulled out from under it. True, the sheet does turn transparent once the water is poured over it, but that's very brief. It's replaced with a dry sheet immediately.

↑ naturalcurls ↓

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 4:11 pm

Molly Weasley wrote:

Best is to start after menopause. Scheduling gets very complicated otherwise according to many minhagim

Scheduling what?

↑ naturalcurls

Tue, Dec 03 2024, 4:11 pm

zaq wrote:

Good to know thank you