טעמא vs טעמע…. Incorrect matzaiva spelling.. how to fix?

↑ Chayalle

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:49 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

There’s no problem with spelling a name differently on school papers or a matzeivah. The problem is a kesubah and a gett. A kesubah and a gett are legally binding documents in halacha. Spelling the names correctly is very important, especially for a gett. There are sefarim that list the correct spelling of names. When you name your children it’s important to find out the correct spelling of their names so they have no problem going forward when they get married or divorced. Ask your rabbi for the correct spelling of your kids names. It’s not as simple as spelling a name the way you pronounce it or the way you like.

DH has been involved in gittin, and he says they just spell it all the different ways on a Get. They will write the woman Tema, or Teme, who is called Temi, etc.....

amother

↑ Mulberry ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:51 am

thatworn wrote:

It is more of a nickname if spelled with an ayin. Think of the name "Doba". That is the actual name. Dobe is more of a nickname, with different pronunciation. Other nicknames could be Dobka, Dobke, Dobrusha, Dobrushe, Dobrushke, Dobrushka, Dobale, Dobele, ... the endings are a combination of pronunciation differences and nicknames. Some Rabbomin hold that on a matzeiva and kesuba the actual name must be written, so in this case, Doba with an alef would be used (or maybe with a hay in EY).

In EY Yiddish names are also spelled with the correct spelling on a kesuba. The alef isn’t replaced with a hay even in Israel when they write a Yiddish name on a ksuba or get. Sima, Bryna, Doba and Mushka end in aleph no matter where you live. You can put it on the birth certificate and the school application however you think it looks nice as long as you make sure your family knows what the correct spelling is.

↑ thatworn

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:53 am

amother OP wrote:

That’s what I was thinking too but it sounds like our rav said it’s important to have the name spelled as the klal spells it so it’s correct and a real name vs the doubt of it could’ve been an ע somewhere at some point.

Yes, correct spelling on "official" docos is alef and for sure go with what Rov says!!!!! The reason I would see for changing the matzeivah is so that future generations/cousins/other relatives naming after this person would see correct spelling, as they would not have access to kesuba, etc, but of course, ask your rov about this. Maybe there is an issue with changing a matzevah. We have an incorrectly spelled one and I called the rav asking if my daughter's name is wrong, (name starts with a "y" sound and should have an alef before the yud, but it is just written with an alef, no yud) and he just says that the person making the matzevah is an am ha aretz, nothing about changing it.

Ruchel ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:53 am

Unfortunately in Eretz many are mistaken you see it in cemeteries. You also see it elsewhere of course. Lots of hey

And many people not bothering or refusing to listen to the family

Huge Btdt

amother

↑ Mulberry ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:54 am

Chayalle wrote:

DH has been involved in gittin, and he says they just spell it all the different ways on a Get. They will write the woman Tema, or Teme, who is called Temi, etc.....

On a kesuba your name only appears one way. At a wedding in my family there was a delay because of a discussion about the correct spelling of a name.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 9:00 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

On a kesuba your name only appears one way. At a wedding in my family there was a delay because of a discussion about the correct spelling of a name.

Oh wow. Is it common for people not to confirm the spelling of a name before officially naming the baby?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 9:01 am

thatworn wrote:

Yes, definitely going with א and not changing the matzaiva. I just wonder if my grandmother had a reason to spell with an ע that none of us know…?

amother

↑ DarkCyan ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 9:29 am

amother OP wrote:

Oh wow. Is it common for people not to confirm the spelling of a name before officially naming the baby?

Most of my kids have Yiddish names. I asked our parent whose side we named after how it was spelled in their family. I never thought to check with a rav, even though I had that exact issue before my wedding.

↑ Ruchel

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 9:29 am

amother OP wrote:

Oh wow. Is it common for people not to confirm the spelling of a name before officially naming the baby?

unfortunately seen over and over

amother

↑ DarkCyan

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 9:30 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes, definitely going with א and not changing the matzaiva. I just wonder if my grandmother had a reason to spell with an ע that none of us know…?

Many people were less educated in those days. They probably just didn't know the correct spelling and it didn't occur to them to ask.

amother

↑ Mulberry

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 11:10 am

amother OP wrote:

Oh wow. Is it common for people not to confirm the spelling of a name before officially naming the baby?

It’s not something people usually ask. There’s no Jewish written birth certificate. A baby is named at the bris or when the father has an aliyah and that’s done verbally. The first time a Jewish name is written on a halachically legal document is at the child’s wedding.
An Israeli birth certificate has the name on it in Hebrew but the parents spell the name however they want. There’s a thread today about the name Aliza and the op says she’s seen it with an aleph. That’s about as wrong as you can get, but if you put Aliza with an aleph on your daughter’s Israeli birth certificate they’ll allow it even though that’s not really a name.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 11:44 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

Oh wow. Thank you! Didn’t know any of this. It’s our first kid so we’re looking into all the names of all genders across both families and this name stuck out specifically which is why we asked about it. Didn’t realize most people don’t ask about spelling

sweetpotato

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 12:11 pm

amother OP wrote:

תעמע is a historically used Yiddish spelling for this name, though. You can find this spelling on graves etc. There are Yiddish names that end in an “ah” or “eh” sound and used ע. Yiddish never had standardized spelling and it depended on region and dialect. It’s definitely not the case that your grandmother necessarily was “incorrect” in how her name was spelled.

amother

↑ OP

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 12:26 pm

sweetpotato wrote:

Oh interesting. She spelled it טעמע thought not תעמע.
It sounds like according to the rav, regardless, it’s better that the matzaiva says טעמא and anyone named for her should spell it that was as well