Can the older generation alleviate the housing crises?

amother

↑ Birch ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:35 pm

self determination anyone?
Here is a good imposed solution:
everyone who is unfortunately dealing with this stressful issue can pool money a specific percentage and buy into an apartment building on the outskirts or in a cheaper place accessible to jewish infrastructure and ready made minyan since you are a group.
voila!
problems are easily resolved when the solutions are imposed and sound good on paper having nothing to do with reality and the people and many factors involved
though they do tend to create other issues and unintended consequences

in all seriousness I hope you get the relief you need and not at anyone else's expense
Hashem Can do anything
hugs and hatzlocha

Ima_Shelli

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 6:36 pm

amother Wheat wrote:

Yes, she likely wouldn't have fallen if she wouldn't have had so many stairs to trip over.

Of course, anything could happen at any time, but she died as a direct result of the fall.

Also, its not very comfortable or fun to have go up or down stairs to get a drink of water or go to the bathroom.

Houses often do move between generations in families.

My friends parents just switched with their kids - their kids moved into their house, they moved into the kids apartment. Hopefully financially this was done in a fair way.

chv no one should pressure parents into doing anything they don't want.

I would love my parents to move from their huge, impractical, expensive to run house. Not because I want the house. I don't live anywhere near them. But I know it would be so much easier for them to live in a one or two story small house or apartment. IYH living in such a house would enable them to live independently for many more years, and not have to move into an old age home.

Such a sad story... reminds me of how Ivana Trump died- fell down the staircase of her (formerly) glorious but now empty Manhattan house that she lived in alone...

amother

↑ OP

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 7:31 pm

Goodness.

Why are so many of you putting words in my mouth?

I am not forcing anyone to do anything! It was just an idea I had after seeing my grandparents struggling with the upkeep of their home. Guess who needs to be busy with their upkeep of so many empty dusting rooms and huge gardens? Their grandkids including myself. Cleaning, maintanance etc.

To the poster suggesting that it can get awkward going to visit grandparents who live in huge empty houses, no way, we have a great relationship, it's not a jelousy suggestion, it would have to benefit our grandparents primarily and then the younger generation would have to make it work for them too.

My idea was not for the grandkids to move into their home but for them to split their home so their are more apartments on the market for rent or to sell randomly. Not particularly to family. The houses in the area would still have plenty of space and privacy. The houses are not wood and are sound proof so kids would not be a big issue.

The only reason I thought of this is because we recently had a few family members aged 70ish doing this and they seem very happy. No one forced them!!!

And to the poster asking if this issue is only for frum yidden in the nighbourhood, absolutely not. It's a nationwide problem and therefore it won't help to move locations. Perhaps living in Israel is the only solution but as explained so so many times on different threads, making Aliya is not shayach for so many people for very many reasons.

So many of you are putting words in my mouth, nit picking and making assumptions. Reminds why not to post another OP again.

I really wonder how many of you have done for your grandparents as much as I've done for mine. Given them hundreds of hours of my time to help them with their various needs. Please stop writing rude things.

amother

Jade

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 9:59 pm

amother OP wrote:

I am writing this due to my very uncomfortable situation. I am literally at a loss.

I come from a city where the young generation does not have where to live. This is not an exaggeration of any kind. There are no nearby places for young couples to go. The community is looking to expand and relocate but there are literally no option. It's not in the USA like Monsey or Lakewood where people can move out.

This is where I start wondering. There are many older couples who have married off their children and are living in huge houses with 4,5,6 bedrooms, huge living dining room and kitchen. I wish those older couples would see their children and grandchildren struggling with raising families in holes. I live in 400 square feet with 2 growing kids. I literally do not have where to put another kid.

If those grandparents would split their houses and rent out the units to 2-3 families (including basement and loft) it would really alleviate the housing crises. Those couples were fortunate to buy those houses when they were young marrieds themselves and now that they don't need it, it would be a great service to put some of them back on the market to sell.

I am thinking of two of my grandparents living in a ridiculous amount of space which hardly gets used. They can keep some parts for themselves and rent or sell the rest. Whenever I pass these huge empty houses, I fantasize.

Most of them have had a double digit family themselves and support large families. Now it's time for us to raise ours. But where?

I just feel so hopeless at the moment. What's going to be? Where should I raise my kids? In my tiny bedroom? Small windows, no porch, no space for my stroller or suitcases.

I actually think this is a great idea. Not to say we should kick people out of their homes, but to encourage them to move to a 55+ community. And to all those saying its not right, there are many people that really do not need the space.

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 10:50 pm

amother Birch wrote:

With all due respect I wonder if this is how your GM would tell it
You seem to gloss over her “complaining a few years” what was supposed to temporary be though “you” all knew better and she got over it” though it was “hard”
Don’t mean to harsh your mellow but I’m busy picking my jaw up from the floor
Chas v shalom we ever talked about our grandparents and parents like this
“They helped themselves more than they realized”?! According to who?!

You pretty much made the case all by yourself for everything that is wrong and dangerous with this threads premise

Woah, what? Judge me and write horrible things about me from one post.

I have zero agenda over here. I didn't get the condo! Neither did my parents. When they moved out, I thought it was crazy! Now I feel differently.

But I'm saying after the fact, it was a bracha. While it was setup to accomodate aging, it wasn't perfect at all. Just the few steps by their door would have been a HUGE deal for her right now. There was a lot of walking to different parts of the condo too. More fall risk inside.

In her smaller condo, she has zero steps. She isn't upset about her condo. She is much more focused on how her disease has progressed and how she is so dependent on other people. And how she falls often and is in a lot of pain. She is not the type beaten to submission. She complains freely about whatever she wants.

I know the people involved. That is what makes the difference. You are just reading this.

My grandparents CHOOSE it and have a great relationship with their daughter. They got to do it THEIR way at THEIR pace. I think they would be in an assisted living by now if they hadn't moved when they had. (That is their shita. They won't move in with any of their children.)

Nothing wrong with assisted living, but at least for right now, they have help and their small condo really works for them. (It's a beautiful condo too!)

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 11:04 pm

amother OP wrote:

Seriously. I felt like your throat was jumped down on. I think it's a personal decision that every couple gets to make, but I really saw with my own eyes how downsizing was a good idea especially when it was done voluntarily and not against their will!

My grandmother likes a immaculate house. I am glad she has very little that needs maintaining. Yes, she has a CL but if they missed a speck, she'd reach over to clean it herself which is very dangerous.

However, she moved around over the years. The house she raised her kids in, the house when her kids were out of the house and she had young grandkids, the condo to be closer to grandkids and then smaller condo to help her DD.

My other GM was very attached to her house, for her staying there was critical. Her single son did move in with her which she loved and hated at the same time, but it enabled her to stay there.

amother

↑ Maroon

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 11:38 pm

DrMom wrote:

Why does anyone need to be "encouraged" to move out of his own home? How are you proposing to encourage this?

Also: at age 55? Are you serious??

There are times when it's dangerous for elderly people to live in their own homes. It happens. Nothing to do with other people needing the space whatsoever. It makes sense for children to encourage their parents to go to safer accomodations. (Although, for some, the danger of moving might be more fatal. So as I've said, I really think it's so personal...)

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, Aug 30 2024, 12:08 am

amother Maroon wrote:

Your second post was much clearer without the laughing behind their back references which triggered the responses. A " we knew better" attitude is off putting and disrespectful.

amother

↑ Green ↓

Fri, Aug 30 2024, 4:07 am

amother OP wrote:

It wouldn't solve the problem for the community at large.

What happens when all the grandparents homes are divided up, and the next generation needs home?

Most frum grandparents have more then 2-3 grandchildren, where do they go? Your solution is a personal family solution, not a community solution

While Switzerland does have a nationwide problem, there are cheaper areas and and a community solution would be to establish a group and start a satellite community in one of those areas.

amother

↑ Birch

Fri, Aug 30 2024, 6:53 am

nothing personal op. I have empathy for you and your situation.
However, it is disingenuous to propose solutions to my challenge which involve other people and dramatically affect their lives while rationalizing that it is really to their benefit.

I have seen too many people pressure the older generations to do things that prioritizes benefits them. Albeit sometimes well intentioned as humans we can rationalize anything and need daas Torah. Best when we recognize we are nogea b davar. Nothing new under the sun.

Older people generally are more vulnerable. It is painful and hurtful to them, or anyone, to pressure them thinking we know better or we know best.
While true sometimes parents have to make difficult decisions on behalf of their aging parents there is an ugly phenomenon in which some, albeit well intentioned, undermine their aging parents' appropriate authority and decision making over their own lives.

Treat people as we would wish to be treated. Involve a Torah based neutral objective third party mentor to gain better clarity.

Really it is about healthy boundaries.

amother

↑ Lightgreen

Fri, Aug 30 2024, 8:48 am

In the States at least, this is not a uniquely frum problem. https://www.newsweek.com/boome.....93262
I'm not advocating for kicking Bubbie out of her home but for those if you that claim that the current housing market is just economics 101 and that capitalism means it's natural, you have to recognize how we got here. And that's from government policies that made it less attractive for seniors to move. It's not just one thing-- it's interest rates, tax relief specifically for seniors, regardless of income, restrictions on building more homes, etc. And yes, I do think Boomers selling their homes at market rate would alleviate some problems. It wouldn't help people who can't afford houses to afford them all of a sudden but it would mean that there would be more inventory to buy.

amother

↑ Green

Fri, Aug 30 2024, 9:07 am

amother Lightgreen wrote:

Its not a uniquely frum problem, but it is exacerbated by our big families and need to live in a community, close to schools, shuls, mikvaos ect.

Think about it - if the average american family is two parents + two kids - the couple dying or selling opens up a home for a new couple ( one kid from one family and one from another) so its basically replacement.

Frum families have 5-7 kids - so you are going to need more inventory. That happens by building or spreading to areas they weren't in before. BTW this is good for the economy, that's how growth happens....

In europe, many places are over regulated that it is hard to create new housing beyond what exists.