This weeks double take - cousins club

amother

Obsidian ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 1:38 am

amother Peru wrote:

I think anyone commenting needs to write their age/stage And whether they’re a mom of boys. Because young mothers or girl moms really really can’t understand boys. They just can’t

I'm a mom of boys and think that Liba was wrong. She is responsible for her boys, no matter what. As their mom, she should have been proactive and brought along games to keep them busy. She or her dh should have stopped the ball playing when it interfered with the seudah (that wasnt the uncles responsibility). She should have made sure that either she or her dh was watching the kids when others were napping. Etc.

Even if you have challenging kids, you don’t get to walk away when their actions affect others. You are a parent at all hours, even when the going is tough. You can't offload them onto others just because you're unhappy with the circumstances. They are always your responsibility, no matter what.

amother

Midnight ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 1:38 am

Liba and her husband could have done more.

But it would have been nice to see SOME effort on the part of the rest of the family to engage the boys, instead of setting them up for failure repeatedly. It would have been nice to see that someone put even a small amount of thought into tailoring it for them. They are the first grandchildren, shouldn't they be included?

In a family Shabbaton, you can't completely ignore the needs of one segment of the family and expect positive results.

amother

↑ Obsidian ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 1:42 am

amother Midnight wrote:

Why didn't Liba and her dh engage the boys? Why didn't she bring along stuff tailored to them? Why didn't Liba arrange for them to be included?

Wouldn't they as parents know what their kids needed? It is THEIR responsibility to make sure that it's met. The ones who set the kids up for failure were their own parents.

amother

↑ Midnight

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 1:45 am

amother Obsidian wrote:

It didn't seem like there was much communication beforehand. It didn't seem that Liba was very involved in the planning for the event.

Liba was wrong for not stepping up when she saw what was going on, but her sisters were wrong for not making an effort to include her sons.

↑ mha3484 ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 1:51 am

amother Midnight wrote:

It’s also on Liba's brothers. They cant ask their nephews questions or offer to throw a ball with them? Men don't get a free pass.

amother

Foxglove

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:04 am

amother Diamond wrote:

I feel like all family shabbatons are set up for disasters

Maybe it depends on the ages and stages. We just did a family shabbos, but all the 6 cousins are in the range of 0-5, and there was not fighting at all except regular toddler and little kid stuff once in a while.

The cousins all love each other, my toddler dd was really sad when her cousins left. She kept saying no no stay.

amother

IndianRed ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:07 am

Mom of all boy family here. If you don’t have high energy boys, you just don’t get it. And before you all jump on me that it’s a chinuch issue, I’ll tell you that from the stories my husband and his brothers were the exact same way, if not worse, and now they are all amazing husband and fathers, so considerate and helpful-the high energy is certainly a plus at this stage. So how did they all grow up to be so amazing from being such challenging children if their parents’ attitude was “bad chinuch”. I’m in the same stage as Liba, my boys are older than all their cousins, I wouldn’t leave them unsupervised and I would not let them physically hurt their cousins, but BH my siblings and siblings in law are all much less self centered than the ones in the story. And they all help me! My BILs play with the boys, my MIL brings new books for them, FIL learns with them, my SILs take them on walks.

amother

↑ Obsidian ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:09 am

amother Midnight wrote:

Idk. If I go away for shabbos with the kids, I am the one making inquiries about what will be available for my kids. I don't wait for others to make plans for them.

Where was her communication? Once she became aware of the plans, did she make her boys needs known? Did she ask what games and activities will be available for them or give a heads up to the others to engage and include them?

As a parent, you don't wait on others to ensure the arrangements work for your kids. That is on you, the parent. The missing communication and the missing effort in this picture was on her. If she communicated or extended efforts and the others rebuffed them, then the family would be in the wrong. But it sounds like she did neither and just expected others to pick up her slack.

amother

↑ Obsidian ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:10 am

amother IndianRed wrote:

So if I have high energy boys and think Liba is in the wrong, would you still say I don't get it?

amother

↑ IndianRed

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:12 am

amother Obsidian wrote:

So if I have high energy boys and think Liba is in the wrong, would you still say I don't get it?

Do you have an all boy family? Because it’s different. Boys who have younger siblings, and especially sisters, have much more of an opportunity to learn about playing softer and gentler.

And if they have an older sister, all the more so. They look up to her in some ways and learn from her.

Genius

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:32 am

I read about four well behaved girl moms sitting on their high horses, judging a sister who can’t “control” her boys.
What was so out of the ordinary with their behavior? Running on stairs? Rolling a ball around the Shabbos table (I agree that should’ve been stopped) bothering cousins? Stuffing their faces with jellies?
Liba could’ve done more to keep the boys in check, but the judgement was out of proportion.
The lack of communication before and during was also painful to read about.
I agree that shabbatons are breeding grounds for disaster. Ah mean, the more people, the more potential for relationships to go awry.

amother

Gardenia ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 3:16 am

amother Cognac wrote:

Am I the only one who thought Liba should have stayed home? 🙈

This was the reason I hated the story.
Liba just sounds so left out and misunderstood in the first place. Like her siblings formed a clique that she was left out of bc of her circumstances.
Sounds like a really lonely place to be.
Can't believe you'd want your sister to stay home Can't Believe It

amother

Marigold ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 3:21 am

amother Diamond wrote:

I feel like all family shabbatons are set up for disasters

This is a ridiculous sweeping assumption.

No need to cancel every family shabbaton because of poor planning.

My family’s been doing it for years and it’s always beautiful.

First of all, it’s a lot easier in the winter. Long Shabbos afternoons are just begging for kids to get into trouble. In the winter, there’s no long stretch of time. The night meal ends 8ish and then the little ones go to sleep and everyone else has oneg.

Second, there needs to be a full program or yes, it can be a disaster. Some of the things we do include:

A family game at oneg
A Bobby and Zaidy game at the seudah
The boys make a choir and then perform on Ms
A different grandchild speaks by each meal
Avos ubanim for the boys when there’s a pocket of time, bnos for the girls, lead by older girls

Etc. Plus equal division of all jobs so no one’s resentful.

It’s very doable and can be really beautiful and memorable.

amother

Hawthorn

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 3:31 am

I was also really disturbed by the double take. Clearly Liba was wrong to lett her boys play ball around the shabbos table. And her husband should have been more hands on entertaining the boys on shabbos afternoon. But otherwise they just sound like bored AND JEALOUS boys. Remember that it couldn't have been fun for them to see everyone else having fun, playing with others, enjoying the experience, and to be totally left out. Left out of the adult conversation and left out of the cousins playing.

It seems to me that Liba spent a lot of time on Friday night and shabbos morning entertaining her kids, plus putting in extra time helping for the shabbos. And her sisters treated her as a fifth wheel.

We had a family shabbos recently, with the grandchildren aged 1 to 23. It was amazing. Aunts and uncles interacted with their nieces and nephews. And tried to entertain them. And helped out overall. And thought about what others needed. (And wanted others to get the better rooms most appropriate for their families and needs.) I thought this family seemed to be self centered spoiled people. Non unlike many of the others depicted in Mishpacha's stories and articles.

amother

↑ Cognac ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 3:42 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Ball and seudat Shabbos don't fit in the same sentence. Ever.

Yes. That to me was the worst of the boys infractions.
No parent should allow their kids to throw around a ball in the vicinity of a meal/seudah.
No excuse whatsoever.

yellowroses

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 3:59 am

amother IndianRed wrote:

[I]
That is extremely nice of your family, but they are totally not obligated. They have their own kids to tend to. And I say that as a boys mom. Leba and her husband should have really thought of ideas and strategies beforehand, eg take along new toys for them, take them to a park or on a walk during the afternoon. They generally were waaay to lax with them. All my kids have a lot of energy and I know them well enough that I prepare before such events.

amother

Stoneblue

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 4:16 am

also noticed that Liba was the only mom who was expected to do the meal prep and all the moms of the little girls were excused this. So she had to prepare all the meals and look after her bored boys in a setup which was clearly not what they needed. Boys need a big space to run around or they go crazy.
But her husband should have been on this on shab afternoon when it says he was learning and keeping an eye out- they needed him to take them outside and play energetic games, not watch them run riot. Even the best kids go wild with too much sugar and not enough exercise